Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

[Deltron]

Quote: Originally Posted by NYG_Meth

Trust me, there's a big difference.

Could you explain?

I don't really expect an EA blog to come out and say NaturalMotion but the way they went about taking a jab at newer physics systems in football games is apparent to me at least.

[Rashad19]

Quote:

I see what you're saying regarding what he said, but I think he was referring more to the underlying AI governing gameplay vs. the middleware. Middleware is a part of the general library that each team shares. And can be manipulated easily by anyone off any team. It's the guys who write the code for each specific game that need new toys. The underlying AI for Madden/NCAA is what's broken in many of our opinions. The coding that governs OL/DL interaction and responsibility needs re-written. It's old,old code. And that brings up a question as to whether or not it is fixable. Is the code able to be re-written as part of the core gameplay AI? Does the basic engine allow for specific OL/DL coding or is it just a variation of the same general rules that all players share? It seems many times that players aren't really all that different in their actions, they just have different ratings that don't allow them to do things well. That works well for "skilled" players, but not Lineman. They play the game totally differently. And you can't just cover what they do with captured animations. They have to run totally different AI routines. Really an LB has to have his own set as well as DB's. The reason that we never get a really authentic looking game is that they don't have a deep decision engine for the various positions. Now that EACA is sharing tech, how about the 35-point decision engine form Fifa? Maybe it can be cut and pasted, maybe not. But there are games in EA's own portfolio that are making great strides in "smartening" up their players.

This is exactly what I meant Briankingsfan!! Why applaud EA for submitting a blog that barely scratches the surface on truly improving gameplay. After reading these new feature blogs and seeing them in action in teaser films we should be chomping at the bit to get our hands on the game. Why? Because they are showing us ground breaking and new innovative features that we have not experienced before. If they can't reach that level atleast give us so many new animations that it appears to be a new game even if the engine is the same. Right now the gameplay is stale!! If they would have shown LT hit the hole get tripped up by a diving defender and go into an animation where he put his third leg down(his arm) and continue to fight to regain his balance all while diving forward to reach the first down marker this board would have gone wild!!My entire point here is bring a new freshness to the game and not the same old animations we have been seeing for the last few years. Go in create a ton of new animations if your not going to change the physics engine and re-program the players to behave according to the responsibilities of thier positions!!! Is that so hard?

[BrianFifaFan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashad19

This is exactly what I meant Briankingsfan!! Why applaud EA for submitting a blog that barely scratches the surface on truly improving gameplay. After reading these new feature blogs and seeing them in action in teaser films we should be chomping at the bit to get our hands on the game. Why? Because they are showing us ground breaking and new innovative features that we have not experienced before. If they can't reach that level atleast give us so many new animations that it appears to be a new game even if the engine is the same. Right now the gameplay is stale!! If they would have shown LT hit the hole get tripped up by a diving defender and go into an animation where he put his third leg down(his arm) and continue to fight to regain his balance all while diving forward to reach the first down marker this board would have gone wild!!My entire point here is bring a new freshness to the game and not the same old animations we have been seeing for the last few years. Go in create a ton of new animations if your not going to change the physics engine and re-program the players to behave according to the responsibilities of thier positions!!! Is that so hard?

I like that! And while he's fighting forward have another defender come in to finish the tackle or, at least have all the guys on that side of the field be in bound to crack his skull. Even if the engine won't support the gang tackle. I have seen some promise in the vid but it still seems that they can't into situations like that. The other players don't seem involved enough in the overall concept, be it offense or defense. They are in their own little world until too late. It's like the cornerback who comes in to throw himself on the pile after the plays dead. I was a SS, so I like to crack on Sissybacks!

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashad19

This is exactly what I meant Briankingsfan!! Why applaud EA for submitting a blog that barely scratches the surface on truly improving gameplay. After reading these new feature blogs and seeing them in action in teaser films we should be chomping at the bit to get our hands on the game. Why? Because they are showing us ground breaking and new innovative features that we have not experienced before. If they can't reach that level atleast give us so many new animations that it appears to be a new game even if the engine is the same. Right now the gameplay is stale!! If they would have shown LT hit the hole get tripped up by a diving defender and go into an animation where he put his third leg down(his arm) and continue to fight to regain his balance all while diving forward to reach the first down marker this board would have gone wild!!My entire point here is bring a new freshness to the game and not the same old animations we have been seeing for the last few years. Go in create a ton of new animations if your not going to change the physics engine and re-program the players to behave according to the responsibilities of thier positions!!! Is that so hard?

I see what you are saying, but they are just not going to do the scenario you described. It goes back to what I said in another thread. They have their own processes and that is not going to change. For one, from what I understand all of their animations are hard coded. Even the simply ones like DB backpedal. For them to do the situation you just described would take them ohh my gawd. Not to mention we wouldn't want it to be predetermined, we'd want there still to be some degree of novelty within that situation. And that's the benefit of euphoria I suppose. Developers wouldn't have to do all the work of hard coding animations, but of course some people are too big and proud for that.

[LBzrule]

And Brian you are right, they do not have individual player logic, it's all routines. I'm not going to talk about VC too much here but that's one of the big distinctions between the two games.

[NYG_Meth]

Quote: Originally Posted by Deltron

Could you explain? I don't really expect an EA blog to come out and say NaturalMotion but the way they went about taking a jab at newer physics systems in football games is apparent to me at least.

Ragdoll physics makes characters go limp. It was initially created to simulate death animations. NaturalMotion gives characters behaviors that cause the characters to act intelligently, looking out for themselves. For example, in a football game, a ball carrier with ragdoll physics, when tackled, will go limp, or if he's supposed to break the tackle, a pre-canned break-tackle animation will play. With NaturalMotion, depending on the angle and force behind the tackle, the ball carrier will react accordingly WITHOUT ANY pre-canned animation. I'm not too good at explaining this, but trust me, there's a HUGE difference between ragdoll and NaturalMotion. Maybe someone else can help me out...

[SageInfinite]

1 thing's for sure, we've come a long way from Madden 06 on next gen.
That's why I think EA/Tiburon is so proud of the game this year. Look how far its come. The only thing is that they started off so badly. Had they started with a solid foundation, who knows how far this series would be now.

[grunt]

I don't see why so many people are excited over this video. Just a bunch of one on one tackles close up.