Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

[SoxFan01605]

Quote: Originally Posted by astarr

This probably has already been posted, so forgive me. What we all should do is let them ship 2010 and wait until the prices drop to around $30 before we buy. That way we aren't taking as big a hit to what amounts to a Beta copy of the game. I have always been an EA guy, from the original Madden until know, but the lack of competition has killed the game IMO. Rather than competing for the hardcore fan (as they were with 2K), now they are trying to attract the outsiders.They know we get Football Fever, and our thumbs start twitching and money seems so unimportant, and we are ready to eat Ramen noodles so we can afford a copy of Madden. The worst part is this year, I refused to reserve a copy, but I got on here and heard people arguing good vs bad, and it tipped me over the edge and I put down my $60 with a smile, and now I can't even afford NBA 2K9 (with a new baby coming and all). The tragedy of this years game is that it is within reach of perfection. Let me explain. If you could take the smoothness of the graphics and combine it with the substance of past games, it would be right there. Instead it falls so short. It is almost unplayable for me. I would gladly give it back for my money back.

It's a fair point and I agree about being patient about buying. The fact is though, like you alluded to, it's easier said than done for some people. I would love it (purely from an observational standpoint, nothing personal against EA) if they took a hit in early sales figures for Madden 2010. It would prove that many aren't satisfied with the product. I'm certainly not implying it would make a difference in the grander schemes (we are sadly a minority), but I would be curious to see just what percentage we make up. It's a pipe dream of course, as many who are so irate now will be the ones leading the way come next August, but it's fun to imagine.

As for those who can't afford to pick up a another game because they took a chance on Madden, my reaction is mixed. On the one hand, I feel their is enough evidence over the past few years to tell you to not be fooled by the early reviews (almost always positive as it's usually the bigger fans of the series with it first) and to resist temptation until more balance info is available. On the other hand, it's hard not to sympathize with a tight budget and the fact that if you really want new videogame football, you only have one purchase option. I'll always advocate being a careful consumer though.

Madden is not alone in these typs of issues. Even on the 2K9 forum their is a fairly large divide between it's fans and those who feel it's terrible. I think the general consensus from simmers would be positive, but it has it's own share of realism issues that some can't get past (and there are reports of freezing with don't surprise me...I honestly can't think of a single EA or 2K game that has been anywhere close to 100% stable. Don't know why sports game have these issues to be honest, but that's another discussion).

I think it boils down to options. MLB 2K8 was a mess but there was The Show. NBA 2K9 has it's critics (though it's still the #1 B-ball game out there, IMO) but there's Live and NBA 09. Madden is always going to draw more criticism, and rightfully so, because it's the only football in town. I think critique aimed at making the game better is nothing but a positive. Hopefully Ian and co. feel the same way. Anyway, congrats on the baby!

On a side note, for the rant above the post I quoted, (and I can obviously only accurately speak for myself on this) I don't think any reasonable person thinks we shouldn't be critical of Ian or Phil or any other developer for that matter. It's the insults and conterproductive whining that is so rediculous. I would also say that it IS a privelage to have the developers on here, but I agree that shouldn't give them a free pass. As for patches, I won't go into what our rights really are (hint: they're actually quite limited in this particular case) but I personally feel that patches are a responsibility of the given company. While we (contrary to popular belief) aren't owed anything, I think if there is a means to provide fixes for a sub-par aspect to the product it only makes sense for the company to make a strong effort to provide them. That is what brings people back. Well, that...and an NFL licensed game apparently...lol. Anyway, enough of my yammering...sorry.

[MJenness]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tecahl

I really can't understand how anyone can defend EA anymore. Sad thing is, it's the same people everytime. Yes, I have to look in the mirror and realize that nobody put a gun to my head and made me purchase this game, but that doesn't mean I have to feel guilty about being disappointed in it. I'm not the one who released a half-assed product and profited greatly from it. Normally, if a business continues to release products that don't work properly, they get punished for it. It even happens here. Everytime I see someone say that we are privileged by the fact that we have developers posting here or that we don't have a right to patches that fixes gameplay, it makes me sick. We even have to walk on egg shells whenever we have a point needing to be made for fear of "upsetting" Phil or Ian. EA does this all of the time. They release the same game with the same problems every year, make a fortune off of it and then promise us features and fixes that don't work. And then, once the cash cow has been milked enough, any bug or glitch that wasn't fixed in the patch, that didn't really work in the first place, is something we'll hope for for next year, which, yet again, doesn't happen. I'm tired of waiting for next year. I'm tired of complaining. I'm tired of jumping through hoops just to make the damned game playable. There is nothing to suggest that these problems will be fixed and I'm getting so sick of people rising up to defend EA's honor here. They should no longer have the benefit of the doubt anymore, contrary to the beliefs of a couple of people here that shall not be named. I can't say that I'm surprised here, and that's the most disgusting part of this whole situation.

EXACTLY!!!!

[deebo2246]

The funny thing about the situation of patches and dlc is that EA is not willing to foot the bill for their broken products. They consistently brag about making $150 million during the first month of release, yet to possibly fix their game it will cost a extra $100k or a bit more, however what is so wrong with pleasing your consumers and spending a little money to give them a better experience.

Another point is why are they so quick to launch their products so early when they know they are broken or flawed? NCAA in July, and Madden NFL in early August that is so dumb. They need to take the extra couple weeks or month to fix the routine flaws that are in their product. I know their are some who will say that if they wait the games will compete against each other, but that is the nature of the beast. College football is the NFL's competitor and that is why they play on Saturday so you can get the best of both worlds.

We do not really need these games a month before their actual season start. If anything launch them two weeks max before their season begins. Most of these games are shipped to stores up to a month before release and that shows the developers are more concerned about money and relying on patches to fix things that was part of the cycle anyway.

Like my previous posts, I have wishful thinking that EA will be ran like it was back on the Genesis system. "If it's in the game, it's in the game." They must be watching some other games then.

[SkinsBoYee]

Ah...the old, we will see what 2010 holds. That will be the true test. I can't wait till its 2020 and we are saying the same thing. We have been saying that line since the jump to next gen. What is that 4 or 5 years now? I could be off.

I understand...we are not going to get everything we wanted...but the product is so poor. Its almost a joke. From lack of camera, to poor presentation, to gameplay that gets older than a witches boobies. Its the same thing year after year. The same, wait till next year till they get it right.

I may be in the minority but the exclusive rights agreement is the reason we have such a poor choice and product in the NFL football video game scene. Well I guess you can say it is indirectly responsible for it. There needs to be competition to drive product quality...and push the envelope for what WE, THE CONSUMERS, demand in the product. I admit...its my fault for falling for the drivel and the hype. But whats hurts more, is that I don't have a Next Gen, with all the bells and whistles from last gen, football game that I can enjoy playing. I am not a 2k5 fan boy, I am a fan boy of a good football game. Its sad that 2k5 is still the standard for presentation, gameplay...and quality football experience for gamers of my like mind. EA needs to wake up...the problem is, there is no competition for them to even need to.

[TheShizNo1]

Game was defective at purchase. 2nd Patch, the game was still effed up that you had to delete all things Madden to get it to work right. Now no DLC? Wow EA get your **** together, or at least your communication.

[matt8204]

Quote: Originally Posted by SkinsBoYee

Ah...the old, we will see what 2010 holds. That will be the true test. I can't wait till its 2020 and we are saying the same thing. We have been saying that line since the jump to next gen. What is that 4 or 5 years now? I could be off. I understand...we are not going to get everything we wanted...but the product is so poor. Its almost a joke. From lack of camera, to poor presentation, to gameplay that gets older than a witches boobies. Its the same thing year after year. The same, wait till next year till they get it right. I may be in the minority but the exclusive rights agreement is the reason we have such a poor choice and product in the NFL football video game scene. Well I guess you can say it is indirectly responsible for it. There needs to be competition to drive product quality...and push the envelope for what WE, THE CONSUMERS, demand in the product. I admit...its my fault for falling for the drivel and the hype. But whats hurts more, is that I don't have a Next Gen, with all the bells and whistles from last gen, football game that I can enjoy playing. I am not a 2k5 fan boy, I am a fan boy of a good football game. Its sad that 2k5 is still the standard for presentation, gameplay...and quality football experience for gamers of my like mind. EA needs to wake up...the problem is, there is no competition for them to even need to.

The exclusive rights agreement IS the reason for the game's lack of quality and polish. EA knows that people out there love football and have no other choice if they want to play a video game based on real NFL teams and players. They basically have the ability to say, "Here's our product. If you want an NFL game, this is what you're playing. Take it or leave it."

[astarr]

In response to SoxFan01605

Honestly, I think the thing that is most irritating is simply that if this game had legitimate sliders, it would be playable. Granted it wouldn't fix everything, but it would answer the major issues that make this game unplayable as far as gameplay itself. I know that Franchise needs to be deeper (that is all that I play BTW).

In the past, it seemed that at least you could render the game playable via the sliders.

As far as being a careful consumer, I get what you are saying. However, when I was growing up we couldn't afford a computer, and I played football in a hallway w/ a brother 8 years older than I with an array of different sized boxes and an intricate yardage and scoring system. My point is when you have a passion for football, and the College and NFL season are in full bloom, you have $60 bucks set aside... I mean it's easier to say I shouldn't have than it is to say, ain't gonna buy it, I'm going to wait. That is why I can only say I hope that next year I got enough guts to avoid this forum until the prices drop. You always have people saying "This is the greatest, I'm having the time of my life."

Maybe we should elect a panel of 12 guys who are solid gamers and varied in the preference of gamer modes (franchise, online, etc.), let them buy the game (even if we all pitch in), play it for at least a month, and then listen to what they have to say. I don't know.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

I think its a combination of laziness and the old regime just simply not knowing how to appease their hardcore fanbase. I really question if they really knew what people like us were wanting.

And this is probably where the watershed moment lies for Madden 2010 because of the posts from Madden teamers itemizing specifically about the things we want.

We're all pretty convinced just remembering past years this gen, that there will be something catastrophically wrong with the game. This year it was CPU Sliders, the year before that it was... well... everything, lol. And so on.

But when you read a thread like the one Ian made about the "Top 25 must-have's" you get excited because he pretty much touches on everything we've been asking to get for probably a decade now. Question is, will these things make it into 2010 or not? That's all we care about. If they don't, here will be again asking what the heck happened?

I read Joborules presentation post. Jobo did a great job. If you look at my posts in the Wishlist thread, we're pretty much talking about the same concept. But to our discredit, lots of people have suggested the same or similar things. Every year this gen except for 08, I saw a Madden filled with flaws but still having some promise. If they just tweaked this or that, and made the presentation TV-quality we'd have that great game. Every year, they took another step backwards on that journey except for 09. Only problem with 09 is that the presentation felt like it was put together by folks who'd never been there before... like a team of inexperienced young players and rookies getting to the Super Bowl but then getting pummeled 55 to nothing...

... They can't claim rookie status with 2010.