Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

[Clutch masta]

Quote: Originally Posted by mrprice33

If a reviewer believes that the game deserves a 9, where is this supposed bias?

If i believe it is bias,why are you questioning me?leave it as what i said.Simpler,supposedly Deeper,and Quicker deserves a 9 rating?yea right.I'll give it a 5.5 for trying but the execution 0.I dont want to go anymore with this debate,stay on topic.

[mrprice33]

Quote: Originally Posted by Clutch masta

If i believe it is bias,why are you questioning me?leave it as what i said.Simpler,supposedly Deeper,and Quicker deserves a 9 rating?yea right.I'll give it a 5.5 for trying but the execution 0.I dont want to go anymore with this debate,stay on topic.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to ask you to explain and expound on your post. It's my fault though, as upon further review, it was so eloquently worded and thoughtfully explained that any further discussion of it was rendered moot.

Anyway, to the topic at hand. I think perhaps we should allow a few more weeks of sales to come in before tapdancing on Madden's grave. As others have pointed out, last year's game didn't start off with a huge bang, yet had a long enough tail to outsell its predecessor. There is a distinct possibility that this could happen here, although it is also possible that the game will do less business.

One extra point, too. I really don't think using UFC (which, like I said, went from savior to dud in about 12 months), NBA 2K (which, much like Madden, has a huge bunch of legacy issues that the developers are either unwilling/unable to fix) or Fifa (which has only recently been even remotely playable, though it still doesn't come close to accurately portraying the sport) as examples of "greatness in sports gaming" really works for me.

There has been one series from last gen which has truly innovated this gen, and that's the NHL series. All of the other sports games generally have similar gameplay to their last gen counterparts, particularly those which many people on here like to point to as some great accomplishment in gaming.

If these games are forced to stay on this 12 month release schedule, we'll never see the innovation that other types of titles have. Do you think there could be anything approaching Halo's Forge World in a game made in 12 months? Do you think EA would be able to create basically perfect matchmaking (ala Starcraft 2) in 12 months? As it currently stands, the situation is as I said. There will be a bunch of iterative releases, with the occasional big deal release. Those of you who expect something of a quantum jump from year to year will always be disappointed, as it's basically impossible to do so on such a short window.

[Sort of Irish]

...I'm not one hundred percent convinced weak sales will change any future installments of Madden. The franchise will continue to be mediocre until there is a football game that can actually compete. Competition is the only thing I can see that would push EA to make a better game. Sadly I don't think weak sales is necessarily going to change anything.

[rangerrick012]

Quote: Originally Posted by mrprice33

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to ask you to explain and expound on your post. It's my fault though, as upon further review, it was so eloquently worded and thoughtfully explained that any further discussion of it was rendered moot. Anyway, to the topic at hand. I think perhaps we should allow a few more weeks of sales to come in before tapdancing on Madden's grave. As others have pointed out, last year's game didn't start off with a huge bang, yet had a long enough tail to outsell its predecessor. There is a distinct possibility that this could happen here, although it is also possible that the game will do less business. One extra point, too. I really don't think using UFC (which, like I said, went from savior to dud in about 12 months), NBA 2K (which, much like Madden, has a huge bunch of legacy issues that the developers are either unwilling/unable to fix) or Fifa (which has only recently been even remotely playable, though it still doesn't come close to accurately portraying the sport) as examples of "greatness in sports gaming" really works for me. There has been one series from last gen which has truly innovated this gen, and that's the NHL series. All of the other sports games generally have similar gameplay to their last gen counterparts, particularly those which many people on here like to point to as some great accomplishment in gaming. If these games are forced to stay on this 12 month release schedule, we'll never see the innovation that other types of titles have. Do you think there could be anything approaching Halo's Forge World in a game made in 12 months? Do you think EA would be able to create basically perfect matchmaking (ala Starcraft 2) in 12 months? As it currently stands, the situation is as I said. There will be a bunch of iterative releases, with the occasional big deal release. Those of you who expect something of a quantum jump from year to year will always be disappointed, as it's basically impossible to do so on such a short window.

So wait, NBA 2k and FIFA haven't advanced at all from last gen to next gen? OKAY....*sigh*

[mrprice33]

Quote: Originally Posted by rangerrick012

So wait, NBA 2k and FIFA haven't advanced at all from last gen to next gen? OKAY....*sigh*

How do you get that from "All of the other sports games generally have similar gameplay to their last gen counterparts, particularly those which many people on here like to point to as some great accomplishment in gaming"?

And specifically concerning 2k and fifa "NBA 2K (which, much like Madden, has a huge bunch of legacy issues that the developers are either unwilling/unable to fix) or Fifa (which has only recently been even remotely playable, though it still doesn't come close to accurately portraying the sport)"?

I'll clarify further...NBA 2K's largest gameplay innovation this gen was signature shooting, and that's pretty much it. On the court the game doesn't play terribly differently from the last gen versions. It still has way too many PIP, isomotion (another last gen feature) is still awful, the shooting percentages are still too high, and the fast break vacillates between ludicrously difficult (2k8) and hilariously easy (2k10). Furthermore, the player interaction (like Madden's) is firmly stuck in 2005.

FIFA, while a ton of fun to play, doesn't even come close to accurately representing the game. It's still way too fast, through passes still work way too well, and there isn't nearly enough of a midfield game. The mechanics of playing that game have only recently changed (thanks to the locomotion upgrades and improvement in ball physics) but again it's not drastically different.

I wish I didn't have to explain myself when my point is seemingly clearly laid out in my post (never once did I say none of these games have advanced since last gen), but it was a necessity.

[Clutch masta]

dude,rest already.

[inkcil]

Quote: Originally Posted by OctoberRust38

Go and put your pre-order in right away! Don't be a victim another year, my friend.

Dude, that was hilarious! Is that for real? Wooooow.....LOL

[REDRZA]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

Been an interesting thread to read. In fact, I read the entire thing. I think it's difficult to say who's right/wrong in the back & forth that has transpired. One thing I do know: celebrating bad sales (if they are indeed 'bad') is probably not a great idea. I know some think this opens the door for Madden to become even more sim or that it'll eventually void the exclusive license. Me, I'm not so naive. The truth is -- depending on who you ask -- Madden has gone into a more sim direction the last two years. I think anyone who makes the case that the hardcore gamer wasn't thought of in the last two years is biased. Even Gameflow which certainly has a more casual appeal has something unique that even this sim gamer can appreciate. My point is that sagging sales could produce the opposite of what some are looking for in this thread. If enough people at EA think that Madden has gotten a little too hardcore in the last two years (it could happen), we could be looking at a scenario where the game gets back to being more tourney/casual. Ditto above...

Few things man. Yes, Madden 10 began to make the game more realistic. Madden 11 however, has gone completely the opposite direction with Gameflow which the CPU picks 1 play for you (and an imaginary offensive coordinator tells you how to run it. Yes i know all about game planning but i still do not like the CPU calling a single play for me).

Then you add in the strategy pad, which i don't so much hate, but the fact of the matter is even during the load screens EA is telling you that the strategy pad "streamlines" all the options to one place. I'm pretty sure they "streamlined" it for "casual" players. Hardcore, long time fans don't need anything made easier.

Then you have the fact that defense has taken a big step backwards. Calling a zone is useless, man can be beat, defenders dont react as fast as offenive players due to locomotion (Ian Cummings even admitted it), way too many broken tackles leading to big plays. Who like high scoring games with no real defensive strategy to balance the game? Casual players.

Now throw in the fact that this year they didn't even touch offline or online franchise, they didn't upgrade online at all. No ranked All Madden games, no fair play rules, we can't eben use our own user setting online like the ability to turn auto strafe off or auto sprint off. Online has been the most watered down mode each and every year.

I can see that Madden 10 made some steps to become a more realistic experience, but Madden 11 has clearly been geared toward a more casual one. Through all of this though, the fact of the matter is that this game enigine(s), and legacy code has past its age. It doesnt matter how they tweak and tune it anymore. They need to change the formula.