Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

[dannyr326]

Those guys really piss me off. Donny does a solid job on the ratings. I think everyone can agree with that. But the way they were talking about 2K11 being too complicated. wow. Nobody cares about gameflow and making the game simpler. The goal is Realism, fundamentals, tackling, user control...

[Moegames]

Devs - just get back to the basics, never mind coming up with the next "big idea" and just make a fun, authentic game of pigskin..thats all we ever wanted but please...make sure the game has some "soul" ...look at NBA 2k11, NFL2k5, MLB The Show.. one of the big reasons why so many love those games and cant get enough of those games is not only the solid game play/AI but the presentation is "right" ...those games flow in all area's, the commentary in those games flow seamlessly and it "feels" like its the real thing because of the presentation and atmospheric touches...which pay off big time by helping make the game fun and exciting to play.

Another thing.. the running game in madden needs to allow the tapping of the button to break out of tackles and to run faster. Im not suggesting making it the only way to run the rock or break tackles..im saying give us an "OPTION" for that ..that can be toggled on or off for personal preference.

One of the most exciting things with NFL2k5 was being able to adjust how fast you tap the button to run while looking for a hole to break through and after breaking through the hole you tap the button even faster so you can break away from the defenders or tapping the button fast as you can to get around the defenders on a sweep to the right or left.....it also feels so good to be able to tap the button to break out of a tackle. These are things that should already come in this game but for what ever reason.. you all never even touched it which baffles me. To me and i know for many others..thats fun stuff. You dev's gotta be able to see that....right?

By the way .. just to make myself clear ...Im not talking about holding down a trigger button to accelerate like you always gave us..no no no..im talking how it was in NFL2k5 to the "T" ... put aside the pride and take that from NFL2k5 and just put it in madden ..PLEASE. It would be one of those "little" things that make a "BIG" difference.

Also dont stop with the presentation... in my opinion its not even close to where it should be right now. I will even say M11 feels like it took a step backwards over M10 in the presentation dept. The commentary MUST flow step by step... and must feel natural. It simply does not.. Gus at some points in the game sounds utterly foolish at times..thats not the effect you want....no? Come on guys... again, if NBA 2k11 can make that fast pace game flow with its commentary... then there is absolutely no excuse for madden not to follow suite. Its been done time and time again but madden again and again seems it cant get any breath taking presentation into their game..its KILLING IT. This day and age we live in.. presentation is what most of us demand to be included in a sports title..and those that dont are the minority. Who is your priority? - Online Tourney guys? Hardcore sim guys? Or the average joe that likes to kick back on the couch by their self or with a buddy and play a fun game of football? You guys need to really really think about this...

Simply put - madden sales are falling because the game feels dated and stale..no life, no soul, no excitement. Keep pressing on the presentation, half time stuff, franchise stuff and flowing commentary and of course key game play and AI elements and we will finally be playing the game we been waiting for. Like i said...get back to the basics and that is the bottom line.

[jWILL253]

As far as "boycotting the game" is concerned, Madden sales are down 18% from last year. So, we can stop with the overused term. As long as the economy continues being the way it is, then gamers are gonna want more for their buck.

Now, for the rest of the podcast. I brought up the issue of Real-Time Physics the week before, and Ian responded on Twitter by bringing up the podcasts before the first one even came out. It's good to know it's the future, but how far along? They said they've been working on it since dev for Madden 06 began, but they had to trash it because it wasn't ready. But, a HOCKEY game has it, so "the future" can't be too far away.

It's funny that they brought up the issue of penalties, specifically Pass Interference, because I keep thinking of the story of EA Sports being re-structured from the inside that came out a few weeks back. The story said that there would be a lot more sharing of resources. And, if I remember correctly, FIFA has a jostling system in place. Maybe if they add the same thing for WR/DB interaction, it would actually make the virtual refs call it, and then it would just be a tuning issue. Because, from what I understand, the only reason why they don't have PI tuned properly, is because of how often the DB would MAUL the receiver. Thing is, if they take the jostling system from FIFA, they wouldn't need to make a DB MAUL a receiver, as most PI calls are borderline anyways.

But, I was SMH at their analysis of NBA 2K11. They should honestly take a look at sales numbers, and discover that SIM SELLS. MLB 10 The Show: top-seller. NHL 11: hot ticket. NBA 2K11: one of the highest selling games for the month of October. FIFA 11: highest selling game worldwide. If they DO pay attention to numbers, then they would know that SIM is the way to go, because ALL of the games they made to cater to the arcade crowd don't sell well. In fact, Elite was cancelled.

Just my take on all of that...

[Kushmir]

Quote: Originally Posted by dannyr326

Those guys really piss me off. Donny does a solid job on the ratings. I think everyone can agree with that. But the way they were talking about 2K11 being too complicated. wow. Nobody cares about gameflow and making the game simpler. The goal is Realism, fundamentals, tackling, user control...

I almost choked when I saw this. are you serious? this dude is a JOKE...he might be the biggest reason I put down the game. at their core--sports games function from ratings..if ratings are bad, the game is bad. and Donny Moore couldn't rate his way out of a wet paper bag....wanna know why QBs are too accurate, there are too many broken tackles, defenses are inept and speed is the games dominant attribute? look no further than your RATINGS. and by association...your ratings "czar" (as if..only if czar translates to "bumbling idiot who ruins everything"...chuckle)

2 years ago they were supposed to be "shrinking" the ratings...but this guy's overrating knows no bounds. once again we have solid and good players with overall rating in the 90s when these ratings should be reserved for the top players at each position. the result? LOL..look no further than Rob Bironas and Janikowski kicking FGs of further than 65 yards (i'm not making this up...go in practice mode if you doubt me) to see the effects of his know-nothingness.

ratings should inch-along and players should be assessed quarterly during the season (i.e. every four games) there is simply too much ebb and flow from week-to-week in the NFL to rate players after 7 days. while we should see player movement (especially since the official NFL videogame doesn't have full rosters..sigh) that should be it.

more proof? follow this guy on twitter and watch the foolishness he prints. his knee-jerk reaction to rating players where one play raises/lowers your ratings is idiocy. even worse, his basic approach to ratings is screwed up...he spouts off about not lowering the Cowboys ratings too much because they've "obviously got alot of talent, the coaching was just bad." no friggin' duh, donny! I could say that about alot of teams.

I guess those early Patriots SB teams wouldn't have been rated very well. I mean...all they did was stay disciplined, not beat themselves and out-scheme and out-coach people...especially with SPEED being the dominant attribute in Madden and all. Every team in the NFL has talent...ratings should be first and foremost based on SUCCESS and PRODUCTION. you WIN and PRODUCE your ratings go up...you don't? they go down or stay the same...this isn't Rocket Science.

somebody put that guy on NFL Street where he belongs...he's the Dick Vitale of sports gaming.

show these guys how you feel about the casual "middle finger" they gave sim gamers in Madden 11. BOYCOTT MADDEN 12.

[sniperhare]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kushmir

I almost choked when I saw this. are you serious? this dude is a JOKE...he might be the biggest reason I put down the game. at their core--sports games function from ratings..if ratings are bad, the game is bad. and Donny Moore couldn't rate his way out of a wet paper bag....wanna know why QBs are too accurate, there are too many broken tackles, defenses are inept and speed is the games dominant attribute? look no further than your RATINGS. and by association...your ratings "czar" (as if..only if czar translates to "bumbling idiot who runs everything"...chuckle) 2 years ago they were supposed to be "shrinking" the ratings...but this guy's overrating knows no bounds. once again we have solid and good players with overall rating in the 90s when these ratings should be reserved for the top players at each position. the result? LOL..look no further than Rob Bironas and Janikowski kicking FGs of further than 65 yards (i'm not making this up...go in practice mode if you doubt me) to see the effects of his know-nothingness. ratings should inch-along and players should be assessed quarterly during the season (i.e. every four games) there is simply too much ebb and flow from week-to-week in the NFL to rate players after 7 days. while we should see player movement (especially since the official NFL videogame doesn't have full rosters..sigh) that should be it. more proof? follow this guy on twitter and watch the foolishness he prints. his knee-jerk reaction to rating players where one play raises/lowers your ratings is idiocy. even worse, his basic approach to ratings is screwed up...he spouts off about not lowering the Cowboys ratings too much because they've "obviously got alot of talent, the coaching was just bad." no friggin' duh, donny! I could say that about alot of teams. I guess those early Patriots SB teams wouldn't have been rated very well. I mean...all they did was stay disciplined, not beat themselves and out-scheme and out-coach people...especially with SPEED being the dominant attribute in Madden and all. Every team in the NFL has talent...ratings should be first and foremost based on SUCCESS and PRODUCTION. you WIN and PRODUCE your ratings go up...you don't? they go down or stay the same...this isn't Rocket Science. somebody put that guy on NFL Street where he belongs...he's the Dick Vitale of sports gaming. show these guys how you feel about the casual "middle finger" they gave sim gamers in Madden 11. BOYCOTT MADDEN 12.

+1 I've always felt Madden needed a team of people rating the rosters.

And until they give us full rosters, a working IR and practice squads the Madden devs are failing at giving us a realistic game.

If it's a disc space issue use two discs, it worked fine in playstation days, it can work again.

[Kushmir]

a team? such a novel concept...you mean maybe one person per team who can really evaluate the players and tell us the "little things" like which bench player is playing "lights out" and legitimately deserves a ratings boost versus some guy who's numbers look good but in actuality he's putting them up in garbage time long after the games have been decided?

never happen. it'd take a company with enough money to buy NFL exclusivity to do something like that...

but all sarcasm aside, i won't play another football game again until i get those things you mentioned (in addition to real-time physics, consecutive tackling. individual coverage audibles...the list is long--i won't go into it here) and since I know Madden won't ever consider a game that "sim" (them turning up their noses at NBA 2K is **** fail, in my opinion-and let the real sim gamer know how they really feel) i'm retired....its breaks my heart not to play football, but I won't be disappointed over and over again...

[carnalnirvana]

kushmir

amen bro, i have preached this for years, the ratings are the #1 reason the default week to week gameplay is garbage

i have completely re-rated my game...

[InSainn]

Quote: Originally Posted by Palo20

In response to Ian and Co. about the hot routes at the line of scrimmage and how it's not realistic, I think it's necesary in Madden because of the lack of playbook options on both sides of the ball. Obviously in real life the QB is not just making up routes on the fly, but in the game, we may want to run a certain play that can't be found in the playbook. On defense, the plays are extremely generic, particularly DLine pass rush assignments (Every team in Madden and NCAA runs the same exact Cover 2 Line Stunt), so we have no choice but to make a bunch of hot routes just to make the play work the way we want. To cut down on the hot routing, give us better playbook options: --Create a play/playbook --Custom Playbooks --Real Life Hot Routes where one WR is designated to read the blitz --Overhaul the defensive playbooks with more options and lets us choose from a variety of pre-snap looks --And finally, on offense, let us call plays similarly to how it is done in real life. If I want to run a toss play, I shouldn't have to search all of the formations to find it. It should be available in every formation. Let us choose a particular play, then give us a list of all formations that it from which it CAN be run. This would add huge variety to the game.

The problem with playcallin in Madden, and really any and every football game ever made is that it should be multistep. First, you choose your player package, next the formation, then, on offense, you call the blocking scheme/protection followed by what play the skill positions are running (obviosly, with a run the blocking scheme is gonna be tied into the play), but this way, virtually any play could be run from any formation or player package. Then on defense you would choose player package (Regular, Nickel, Dime, Quarter, etc), formation (4-3, 3-4, 46, 4-2, 3-3-5, 1-5-5, etc.), then finally pass rush and coverage would be picked seperately, that way you could mix n match different rushes with different coverages and never give the offense the exact same look.