Madden NFL 11 Title Update #5 Available Now, Post Impressions Here (PS3, 360)

[phillyfan23]

one question : if you play against a scrambling QB like Vick, will the cpu- controlled Vick be more reliant on his runs or will he just play like a traditional pocket passer?

thanks

[Senator Palmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by phillyfan23

one question : if you play against a scrambling QB like Vick, will the cpu- controlled Vick be more reliant on his runs or will he just play like a traditional pocket passer? thanks

I'm just strictly speaking from playing on All-Madden. When I have played the Eagles, Michael Vick will break the pocket. He looks to pass first and foremost, especially after his awareness has been boosted in the past few updates, but on downs like 3rd and long, when there's nothing there, he will take off.

[servo75]

Quote: Originally Posted by DirtyJerz32

I turned off the commentary and turned off on field sounds, crowd and PA announcer and it gives me the feeling of being there. I'm really liking the game a lot.

I wonder if there's a way to turn off the coordinator that describes the play to you even if you have gameflow turned off. This guy sounds like a top-40 radio DJ!

[JVM]

Quote: Originally Posted by servo75

I wonder if there's a way to turn off the coordinator that describes the play to you even if you have gameflow turned off. This guy sounds like a top-40 radio DJ!

You can turn coordinator off in Settings under I think it's called Game Options. When I get home later I'll let you know if indeed it is Game Options. Anyway, you can turn it off.

[servo75]

Quote: Originally Posted by JVM

You can turn coordinator off in Settings under I think it's called Game Options. When I get home later I'll let you know if indeed it is Game Options. Anyway, you can turn it off.

Thanks, I'll look at it!

"A sack would be nice, but if we can put pressure on the QB, we can force him into a bad throw!! I'm Casey Casum."

[eye_opener]

I have mixed feelings about the update. It has increased the challenge to a degree in some respects but at the expense of some realism in others.

I think, for the most part, pass coverage has been improved. The outside CBs play off of the receivers which eliminates the deep ball as often. Also if the defender plays press (regardless of his rating) the receiver can be taken completely out of the play with his inability to get a release (also regardless of the release rating). I'm not pleased with this because it's not realistic. Most of the time, IRL, a bump will throw the receiver off of his route and mess with the timing of that section of the play by 1-3 seconds. I have gone back to replays and noticed receivers pressed at the LOS for 5+ seconds. These are receivers with excellent releases (low 90's) being pressed out of the play altogether by CB's with average press (between 70-75). Moreover, the receiver is 6'+ while the CB is 5'10". I'm all for a challenge, but not at the expense of realism. Of course, it's easier to code these things into the game than actual CPU improved AI, so they do what they can with the sub-par product they sent to market. Short crossing routes are covered in man better (they usually don't break completely away until they've crossed to the other side of the field, where as before the CB's were dust by the first cut). The safeties will still let the sideline receiver get in position to protect a middle that's not being attacked (this happens much more to the SS than the FS, which can make sense based on coverage skills but happens regardless of coverage skills, but it happens to the human much more than the CPU, regardless of coverages or skills). LBs (regardless of coverage skills, PRC, AWR, or physical attributes) are still horrendous in any coverage unless the receiver has physical attributes and route running that are sub par (all physical attributes below 80 and route running below 70). Out routes in a double bunch formation are money everytime. I can only cover one of the double out receivers. Even the flat man wont cover the other. It's pathetic programing. The flat CB will also sit on his zone with nobody around for 15+ yds. Flat zones are apparently only for HBs, out WR curls, or outside drags otherwise madden devs don't believe they should do anything. Keep in mind any of the benefits the AI gains are hardly offered to the Human. Again, not a problem with the challenge (since I adjust my gameplan a bit and still have little trouble), but it seems like a band-aid for poor programming. Only those not interested in realistic game play would appreciate the disparity. I know it might sound bad for some of the SELF PROFESSED "hardcore gamers", but if I call the right play, with the right players, I don't want an update to force the AI to succeed. There are definite improvements to the coverage, but some of them are gimmicks that the Devs don't know how to program proper AI to fix.

The pursuit angles for kick and punt coverages are better. If the punt is 50+ yds the tactic of going to one side far then the other still works 90% of the time (unless the punter is Brian Moorman, gotta love USC). However, most of this improvement on defense has little to do with the angles taken by the defense; instead, being a much larger radius for canned, suck-up tackles (which are one of my most hated features of madden). The "improved" angles are easily accounted for with non-juke move cut-backs. Which is a tactic I use to get my blockers to actually engage the defenders (pathetic).

The pass rush is improved, but I disagree it's a result of the D-Line moves. Most of my pressure is a result of the O-Lineman not engaging. It's like they are defending a pocket centered on themselves. They will watch their defensive assignment run by, turning with the player but not actually engaging him. I don't know what games IRL the people who think madden is in any way an accurate portrayal of the NFL are watching, but they need to pay attention better. If an O-Lineman lets a defender right past him IRL it's because he's double teaming a D-Lineman and the LB goes untouched on a delay blitz. In the game the O-Line acts scared of contact (not to even mention the FB blocking). It seems the blocking ai is not written in a dynamic code. The assignment is determined and the blocker will not recognize a true progression (hence why when you pass a defender your blocker will sometimes turn around and BLOCK YOU indirectly. I can't believe I haven't seen more complaints about this. And this isn't just a return man problem, this happens to me ALL THE TIME).

All in all I think the update is hit or miss. Some of the improvements are actual improvements (D-Line, PR/KR angles, outside CB coverage) but a lot of it are exaggerations of the same mechanics, the same BROKEN mechanics (defensive angles/canned tackles, OL blocking assignments, sideline and LB coverages).

The update islargely irrelevant. If the game is not improved next year I will not purchase it. I want to see better AI, "real-life" physics, and user customization. Without BIG, definable advances in those three areas I will stop buying a game I've owned since 1992 on the original Sega Genesis.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by eye_opener

Also if the defender plays press (regardless of his rating) the receiver can be taken completely out of the play with his inability to get a release (also regardless of the release rating). I'm not pleased with this because it's not realistic. Most of the time, IRL, a bump will throw the receiver off of his route and mess with the timing of that section of the play by 1-3 seconds. I have gone back to replays and noticed receivers pressed at the LOS for 5+ seconds. These are receivers with excellent releases (low 90's) being pressed out of the play altogether by CB's with average press (between 70-75). Moreover, the receiver is 6'+ while the CB is 5'10". I'm all for a challenge, but not at the expense of realism. Of course, it's easier to code these things into the game than actual CPU improved AI, so they do what they can with the sub-par product they sent to market.

I'm not sure if you are using sliders or not, but I was getting penalized for playing press coverage a lot with the Packers against the Bears. Several times, Hester or Knox would blow by Woodsen and Williams. I stopped playing press coverage and started seeing better results.

I played several games against the same two teams and Hester/Knox were breaking free of press coverage. So, just like IRL, to me, it has a reward/risk to it.

Otherwise, I agree with the rest of your post. I'm very pleased post title update, tightened up the pursuit angles and the secondary.

By the way, physics might be something down the road, but I don't think you will see it in 12. I'm guessing they will improve locomotion and the consecutive hit tackles, but that is a guess, at best.

[Sausage]

After several weeks this patch was definitely for the better. The only adjustment I made was to the A.I. D-line, because they constantly did the "insta-swim" move to get past my guards and center.