Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by sgibs7

i didnt once say they are non essential. bc they are essential to make a good game i said that i dont see, notice, or have been aware of pass interference happening in the game, I just dont see it happening in reference to what your saying. thats why I was asking for a video that you might have to show me the example that your referring to. im making my own video so hopefully you can point it out to me

Let me say I appreciate you discussing this matter and being straight up about your POV on it. I also want to say forgive me if a come across like a jerk on this issue because I am just so adamant about the only NFL simulation currently available, being as NFL based as reasonably possible.

That said, here is what you stated earlier that gave me the impression you didn't see DPI being enforced correctly as essential.

bc i want what you want - its just that with the cards that are dealt to me with the current madden 12 game I played with whats in front of me and just play to win games. im agreeing with you about what your saying and that those things need to be fixed. however personally i just dont have a problem with how its working right now - does it need to be fixed, yes im on board this ship.

To me, DPI is a big f'n deal, that hasn't worked right for going on 8 years, so it's obviously has not been essential to EA/Tiburon or on the tourney scene judging by their lack of external awareness or enforcement.

[CRMosier_LM]

Quote: Originally Posted by BlackBetty15

Like I said, while there is some truth to your madden player "Oracle" line, the issue remains so much more simple than you would think. Sliders on game says this...I adjust sliders to my liking...said sliders does not work what so ever. This happens to four penalty sliders hence...its broken...completely. 2. There is punt and fg block...once in a blue moon I can block fg but punts never get close. Neither I or the CPU which is a no go. This is broken because the animation for the linger is rushed to get the ball off. He tales no steps forward...he catches and magically boots it...no muey caliente compadre. Fix what's broken, and tune what's bad. Couple that with all the cool guy features and the majority of gamers have that much less to gripe about. I know I won't say another word other than high praises and endorsements to my friends to buy madden so I can finally play an honest game of football.

How many blocked punts do you expect to see per season? There was what like 4 in the entire league last year? I have blocked one in 4 seasons vs users.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[CRMosier_LM]

I have a couple instances in my vids, maybe my last one or the one before that. Actually had one happen last night too but those are the first 2 I remember or at least that made an impression on me this year in like 80 or so games.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[sgibs7]

Quote: Originally Posted by baller7345

They still exist. An exploit isn't something that can't be stopped it is more something that is much harder to stop than it really should be. Slot streaks with an HB screen shouldn't be able to be your main offensive attack for the whole game but the Truth has videos of him essentially running just that because it is so hard to contain. It shouldn't be that hard to slow something that simple down. It really isnt that hard to slot it down. I dont think he did to well at the tournament as the guy he played must have known how to stop it. To someone that is a novice at the game they will have a extremely hard time stopping this. Its different views on how to look at the game and how it should be played. Freestyle guys dont really care about playing the game the way its seen on sundays - they care about winning and will do it at all costs (as long as no glitches are used). The crazy thing about this ideology is that its exactly how teams in the NFL think. They will do whatever it takes within the means of the rules, and sometimes not within the rules, to win. Some routes are a bit glitchy. I know the post corner is absolutely nuts to stop as it beats pretty much every coverage in the game by itself. The snap motion throws (which luckily should be toned down with the new passing system) have always been a bit glitchy/exploitative in the way they work as well since using routes such as the Corner Strike routes where the receiver shouldn't be looking for the ball right at the snap (which isn't a problem going into next year unless some people learn to user catch quick throws). Now everything here can be stopped but it is still much more difficult to stop it than it rightfully should be. Agreed some routes do extremely weird things however that does not mean they are unstoppable as well as the end all be all to a offense. For example check out Singleback Double Sluggo from the ATL Playbook. Motion the left slot WR a step and snap the ball. You will think its Usain Bolt off the LOS - this ROASTS man coverage. Ya its a problem with the game and yes I have brought it to the attention of the team to fix - however why should I not be allowed touse this? Seriously why cant I? Also its extremely easy to stop - if you drop your DE on that same side into a yellow zone the QB will overthrow the ball which makes it null and void. I agree with you that theres a ton of things int he game that are to hard to stop but thats what the freestyle community prides themselves on. They will sit there and spend 10 hours if they have to figuring out HOW TO STOP the most effective offenses and defenses. They will prepare and they will be diligent until they feel confiden that they can control said money play. Thats the pride that comes with this crowd and thats actually part of Madden that I enjoy playing. I like sitting down and scheming my offense and defense and then trying to prepare what I might see from my opponent. I like to sit in the lab and see how I can slow down Americas O and D. As for nanos, you are correct in stating that the old version of a nano where you'd never get the snap off and there was no way to pick it up are gone but things like the Shake Blitz (speed boost for strafing sideways...) or turbo blitzes (notable 2-4-5 Over Storm Brave) are very glitchy in execution and results. Things like being able to send 3 or 4 guys and free up a DT running straight up the middle because the line prioritizes LB's over that DT is really starting to push the boundries between solid pressure scheme and straight up Madden exploit. Without a doubt it pushes the boundaries without a doubt. However all of them have counters and that again is where the difference is with the sim and freestyle crowds. They sit there looking to find whats effective and whats not and then they look for the counters. Where as the sim crowd probably has never in there life done that - they are just looking to pick the game up and continue on there way. I think the hidden secret of the freestyle crowd is how much time is spent playing the game (im sure sim guys play just as much if not more) but my personal opinion is that the freestyle crowd is more geared to playing the game and dealing with the cards taht are dealt. The one thing about the tourney crowd that really irks the sim crowd is when you have things like Truth stating (mostly when he is talking about playing random people) if it was a game against a tourney player he would know exactly what formation he was coming out in every single play because that is how the game works. I think he used the example of how he himself used to come out in Singleback Tight Flex no matter what and go from there. I think a misconception of the freestyle crowd is they call only one play and thats it. When a major goal of what they do is make everything they do look the same, from the formation, to the hot rotues, to the motions. They will coax you into thinking one thing and then boom hit you elsewhere. To me this is good strategy - I want to lull you to sleep by giving you a look where i keep hitting you underneath and then take my shot deep etc. Or play coverage defense and only rush 2-3 defenders and then BOOM send the house looking to get pressure. The sim crowd understands that you need to make adjustments but we also don't understand how finding a formation that has about 4-5 plays that beat just about everything in the game if done right is fun. I know a couple of fairly good freestyle players who litterally run no more than 5 plays because they are so effective. For me adjustments aren't just about making hot routes from a base play (though with the way Madden represents base coverages its almost necessary on defense) but is also heavily rooted in knowing your entire playbook like the back of your hand. This also applies to having a general knowledge of football concepts which I know not every high level (not necessarily tournament level) actually has when it comes to Madden. Now from reading your posts over the last few days its clear you don't fall into that category and I'm sure a lot of other players don't as well but I've seen several occasions where fairly skilled players have admitted to never playing football (not that big of a deal), never actually tried to understand real football strategy, and see no reason to understand actual football to play madden (this is what sim players despise about some of the freestyle crowd, to the sim side of the argument its like disrespecting the game). A site that I frequent a lot is http://smartfootball.com/. The way I play defense in madden is actually directly from a post about how the Saints played defense during there super bowl run a few years ago. Where they zone coverage one side of the field, play man to man eeverywhere else, and let receivers run into zones but all the while need to spy said receiver if he goes downfield, which would alter the defense totally. I feel like I'm doing a horrible job of fully explaining my outlook on this issue so I'll give threads that do a better job than this on the subject. Not at all man you did a find job explaining and I respect the living daylights out of all sim players. Sim? There is no sim, just try to win (one thing that is completely off topic that comes up in this is the idea of 3 minute quarters for tourney games. I have never understood the reasoning behind the common 4 minute quarters in the first place. Why use short quarters if your goal is to stop random chance from deciding a game, via fumbles and what not. With 4 minute quarters you litterally can run the entire clock out in 6-7 plays. One 14 play drive and you have taken an entire half away. One random fumble can change the entire game where as longer quarters would change that) Sim Franchise Discussion Sim Style the way to go I've really got to stop with these novels...

I have said this in the past and will say it again. I play this game so much and I analyze this game so much that I i expect to win every game I play because I know what im doing and where im going on every single play.

You show me one look Im checking down to the play that I know will be that look. Unless you make adjustments Im going to beat you.

In a nut shell what I think of both crowds is this...

Freestyle players adjust to what there seeing.
Sim players do not adjust to that same level.

I think that has to do with the fact that a Sim player from my understanding is more likely to just say screw the 155 blitz its unstoppable and its not real, this game sucks.

While the freestyle player from my understanding is more likely to say, ok the 155 is effective and people will use it on me when $140,000 is on the line, HOW can I stop it, how can I make them pay for using it.

Hopefully that gave some insight on what I think the freestyle community thinks lol another novel haha

thanks man I really appreciate all these convos. thanks goes out to big fn deal, illustrator, baller, road, and everyone else

[sgibs7]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Let me say I appreciate you discussing this matter and being straight up about your POV on it. I also want to say forgive me if a come across like a jerk on this issue because I am just so adamant about the only NFL simulation currently available, being as NFL based as reasonably possible. That said, here is what you stated earlier that gave me the impression you didn't see DPI being enforced correctly as essential. bc i want what you want - its just that with the cards that are dealt to me with the current madden 12 game I played with whats in front of me and just play to win games. im agreeing with you about what your saying and that those things need to be fixed. however personally i just dont have a problem with how its working right now - does it need to be fixed, yes im on board this ship. To me, DPI is a big f'n deal, that hasn't worked right for going on 8 years, so it's obviously has not been essential to EA/Tiburon or on the tourney scene judging by their lack of external awareness or enforcement.

sorry if it came across that way - but let me try and give perspective explaining somethig else.

what grinds my gears is when someone can come in using a strip animation as a tackle and make me fumble 2-3 times a game EVEN when i cover up - literally every game.

thats when i get fired up about something. My biggest thing with this whole DPI conversation is i dont see it happening in the game causing situations where it prohibits the recever from catching the ball on a consisten basis eveyr game

[baller7345]

Quote: Originally Posted by sgibs7

I have said this in the past and will say it again. I play this game so much and I analyze this game so much that I i expect to win every game I play because I know what im doing and where im going on every single play. You show me one look Im checking down to the play that I know will be that look. Unless you make adjustments Im going to beat you. In a nut shell what I think of both crowds is this... Freestyle players adjust to what there seeing. Sim players do not adjust to that same level. I think that has to do with the fact that a Sim player from my understanding is more likely to just say screw the 155 blitz its unstoppable and its not real, this game sucks. While the freestyle player from my understanding is more likely to say, ok the 155 is effective and people will use it on me when $140,000 is on the line, HOW can I stop it, how can I make them pay for using it. Hopefully that gave some insight on what I think the freestyle community thinks lol another novel haha thanks man I really appreciate all these convos. thanks goes out to big fn deal, illustrator, baller, road, and everyone else

The bold parts first and a part that got deleted because it was part of my quote.

The idea that sim players aren't playing to win (I think you mentioned it somewhere...if not then it'll least get this aspect of my thinking out there) or not trying as hard to win is ridiculous in my mind. I go into every game expecting to win just like you do however I simply refuse to use some of the tactics that you are fine with. I see how unrealistic certain things play out and my own personal idea of the how the game of football should be played stops me from utilizing them. Its sort of like the concept of honor and chivalry from a soldier's standpoint. Perhaps I am the British trying to fight a war using the convential line up and shoot at each other fashion while the freestyle crowd is the Americans popping out from behind tress and utilizing guerrilla tactics. Perhaps its pointless to try and fight a battle using what may be archaic tactics and pointless moral limitations but its how my mind works.

I put more time in this game than is probably healthy, breaking down playbooks (I have 3 full breakdowns on Maddenschool), finding blitzes that use real world pressure schemes, and implemented things I read straight off of Smartfootball and sites like Blitzology (if you like defense and smart football you'll love this one). I probably spent well over 40 hours working exclusively on Cross Fire blitzes. I could get edge pressure or DT/DE pressure but that wasn't what I wanted. I wanted them to work like that Cross Fire video I posted on one of the other conversations we had. I tried desperately to find a way to make the cross criss cross the offensive line's protections in a realistic manner to get A gap pressure from the ILB's and for the most part failed spectacularly and in many cases my trials and errors were on full display (albeit it in text form)

Looping Blitzes
Cross Fire Blitz

Now all this trial and error eventually led to me discovering a zone cross fire blitz that I could actually say worked well enough that it wasn't totally reliant on a block shed. It luckily came out of the 2-4-5 which I run as a base. Because of this Cross Fire 0 and Cross Fire 3 Seam are my two favorite blitzes in the game not because they are the most effective that I run (especially the fire zone blitz) but because I spent so much time working on making a real world concept work and actually managed to come up with something that is wholly unique and mine. I wish more people took my approach to scheming because honestly the Madden community is largely boring when it comes to varrying blitzing schemes. There isn't a lot of variety in what you can find from various sites, they all use pretty much the same concepts or for that matter slightly different setups from the same plays. Its frustrating to see all these blitz concepts that the game has but to have absolutely no one out there other than myself who have explored them.

I feel I'm once again straying from my original premise on what I was intending to explain but I tend to just start typing and let it go where it goes.

Ok back to the bold bit where you say that sim players don't adjust to the same level. I can't speak for all sim players but I'd say I adjust just as much as any freestyle player. Of course it is necessary to develop that skill as for a sim player to actually continually win their local launch tournies in order to keep getting free copies of the game (3 years running). While an event like that doesn't usually have a ton of top tier competition trying to go at it completely sim and relying on the base defensive plays to win you the game is naive.

However on offense where you say you are adjusting I say you are being lazy (not you personally...kind of generalizing here). People state time and again that they hot route plays because the base plays are terrible but they often fail to realize that those base plays are typically the actual concepts ran in the NFL. They do work for the most part as long as you understand what they actually are designed to beat. It drives me crazy to see a tip where a guy calls something like Bench, Slot Outs, Fork, PA Scissors, etc. and then hot route the passing concept out of the play. I know just about everyone runs the Corner Streak version of Bench but that is what my brain is doing every time someone says they are running bench. There is no high low read after you turn it into a weird 4 verts shakes concept. Same thing when people go and murder the triangle stretch that comes from Z-spot. Now I understand that from a game stand point some things are simply more effective than running real life concepts but if it isn't frustrating to see people butcher perfectly good passing concepts because they seemingly don't understand what they were designed to do in the first place.

Also in response to the last sentence in your post. These are the type of Madden conversations that I love to be a part of. They can freely discuss the community issues (sim vs freestyle) while also discussing how to improve the game without degrading into a huge mess of insults. One of the big reasons I stick to Madden School so much is because its members tend to be more open to other styles of play while still being able to discuss it. Well that and the fact that they showed the most love for my Packer playbook breakdown.

[sgibs7]

Quote: Originally Posted by baller7345

The bold parts first and a part that got deleted because it was part of my quote. The idea that sim players aren't playing to win (I think you mentioned it somewhere...if not then it'll least get this aspect of my thinking out there) or not trying as hard to win is ridiculous in my mind. I go into every game expecting to win just like you do however I simply refuse to use some of the tactics that you are fine with. I see how unrealistic certain things play out and my own personal idea of the how the game of football should be played stops me from utilizing them. Its sort of like the concept of honor and chivalry from a soldier's standpoint. Perhaps I am the British trying to fight a war using the convential line up and shoot at each other fashion while the freestyle crowd is the Americans popping out from behind tress and utilizing guerrilla tactics. Perhaps its pointless to try and fight a battle using what may be archaic tactics and pointless moral limitations but its how my mind works. I put more time in this game than is probably healthy, breaking down playbooks (I have 3 full breakdowns on Maddenschool), finding blitzes that use real world pressure schemes, and implemented things I read straight off of Smartfootball and sites like Blitzology (if you like defense and smart football you'll love this one). I probably spent well over 40 hours working exclusively on Cross Fire blitzes. I could get edge pressure or DT/DE pressure but that wasn't what I wanted. I wanted them to work like that Cross Fire video I posted on one of the other conversations we had. I tried desperately to find a way to make the cross criss cross the offensive line's protections in a realistic manner to get A gap pressure from the ILB's and for the most part failed spectacularly and in many cases my trials and errors were on full display (albeit it in text form) Looping Blitzes Cross Fire Blitz Now all this trial and error eventually led to me discovering a zone cross fire blitz that I could actually say worked well enough that it wasn't totally reliant on a block shed. It luckily came out of the 2-4-5 which I run as a base. Because of this Cross Fire 0 and Cross Fire 3 Seam are my two favorite blitzes in the game not because they are the most effective that I run (especially the fire zone blitz) but because I spent so much time working on making a real world concept work and actually managed to come up with something that is wholly unique and mine. I wish more people took my approach to scheming because honestly the Madden community is largely boring when it comes to varrying blitzing schemes. There isn't a lot of variety in what you can find from various sites, they all use pretty much the same concepts or for that matter slightly different setups from the same plays. Its frustrating to see all these blitz concepts that the game has but to have absolutely no one out there other than myself who have explored them. I feel I'm once again straying from my original premise on what I was intending to explain but I tend to just start typing and let it go where it goes. Ok back to the bold bit where you say that sim players don't adjust to the same level. I can't speak for all sim players but I'd say I adjust just as much as any freestyle player. Of course it is necessary to develop that skill as for a sim player to actually continually win their local launch tournies in order to keep getting free copies of the game (3 years running). While an event like that doesn't usually have a ton of top tier competition trying to go at it completely sim and relying on the base defensive plays to win you the game is naive. However on offense where you say you are adjusting I say you are being lazy (not you personally...kind of generalizing here). People state time and again that they hot route plays because the base plays are terrible but they often fail to realize that those base plays are typically the actual concepts ran in the NFL. They do work for the most part as long as you understand what they actually are designed to beat. It drives me crazy to see a tip where a guy calls something like Bench, Slot Outs, Fork, PA Scissors, etc. and then hot route the passing concept out of the play. I know just about everyone runs the Corner Streak version of Bench but that is what my brain is doing every time someone says they are running bench. There is no high low read after you turn it into a weird 4 verts shakes concept. Same thing when people go and murder the triangle stretch that comes from Z-spot. Now I understand that from a game stand point some things are simply more effective than running real life concepts but if it isn't frustrating to see people butcher perfectly good passing concepts because they seemingly don't understand what they were designed to do in the first place. Also in response to the last sentence in your post. These are the type of Madden conversations that I love to be a part of. They can freely discuss the community issues (sim vs freestyle) while also discussing how to improve the game without degrading into a huge mess of insults. One of the big reasons I stick to Madden School so much is because its members tend to be more open to other styles of play while still being able to discuss it. Well that and the fact that they showed the most love for my Packer playbook breakdown.

ill be the first to admit that I a big advocate of Bench and turning it into a 4 verticals. We call it Bench still bc thats the name of the play but when we break it down we explain we are vertically attacking the defense opposed to horizontally attacking the defense.

Most players call cover 3 zone and Bench with streaks is IMO the best way to attack a cover 3. We try and teach people to play madden on a large scale and in doing so I use different terminology that everyone can understand.

yellow zone instead of hook
purple instead of buzz etc.

You can most certainly user bench to attack zone but IMO hot routing it into a 4 verticals concept works better. Just as taking any strong flood play and changing the deep out to a slant out or curl, IMO, is better then the deep out. Mainly bc the deep out takes longer to develope and if i use the curl or the slant out it will accomplish the same thing I was trying to do with strong flood.

check out the strategy guide we wrote that was in stores this year. i think there was about 28ish different style passing concepts that we broke down in the book - however in the game and with hot routes it is often times better to make your own adjustments to plays.

for example...

Falcon Cross Gun Tight Flex - the shallow crosses on this specific plays often run into each other so I like to slant in one of the receivers so it gives them different depths so they dont run into each other. I could hot route my left slot WR to a deep out in combo with the wheel rotue to attack zone coverage but i can do it much faster and easier if I just place him on a slant out

that type stuff

[Illustrator76]

Quote: Originally Posted by sgibs7

In a nut shell what I think of both crowds is this... Freestyle players adjust to what there seeing. Sim players do not adjust to that same level. I think that has to do with the fact that a Sim player from my understanding is more likely to just say screw the 155 blitz its unstoppable and its not real, this game sucks. While the freestyle player from my understanding is more likely to say, ok the 155 is effective and people will use it on me when $140,000 is on the line, HOW can I stop it, how can I make them pay for using it. Hopefully that gave some insight on what I think the freestyle community thinks lol another novel haha

I disagree with this. My feeling is that tourney players are willing to use whatever unrealistic/borderline glitchy method possible to combat something in Madden. Sim players get disgusted at the fact that sound playcalling and strategy gets obliterated by warp routes (yes, there are some in the game as told to me by a tourney player), nanos and other kinds of BS. For example, it simply isn't realistic that I should have to move 6 players around on defense pre-snap and then re-blitz and hot route 5 of them just to stop one specialty BS play that someone is running. No NFL team does that in real life. How is re-blitzing even a real life tactic? Calling an audible is one thing, changing one persons assignment is one thing, but some of the stuff the tourney guys use and consider "real football strategy" is far from it.

If I (being the Detroit Lions) run a 5-2 front with Corey Williams, Ndamukong Suh and Nick Fairley at DT and Stephen Tulloch as my MLB, then (based off of the ratings in Madden) I should be able to stuff the RUN pretty consistently. But in Madden I can't, not even close to it. Why? The 5-2 is broken as hell. I have even seen Defensive Linemen turn around and run BACKWARDS on many run plays instead of tackling a RB right in front of them. Now, that kind of stuff disgusts a sim head to no end, while a tourney guy will simply find some unrealistic formation out of the Dime package, hot-route & re-blitz half the defense and then somehow manage to stop every play in the game, run or pass. Sim heads get so disgusted that realistic strategies and tactics do not work in Madden that they say: "Screw it, I'm done", while the tourney guys say: "I'll find another way around this, even if it isn't totally based off of real life football principles".

For tourney guys, the end justifies the means, and they don't care, as long as they win. For sim heads it's more about the journey than the final destination, even though we want to win just as much as the next guy.