MLB 14 The Show Livestream (PS4)

[nemss316]

I cannot grasp how people are not seeing a huge difference between the two versions. I loaded up the livestream again through my AppleTV and watched the last 5 minutes or so between the Cubs/Cards at Busch. Looked absolutely fantastic, my wife even came in the room and asked what the score was.

[seanjeezy]

Quote: Originally Posted by SVCbearcat10

I'm not saying graphics can't be improved or noticeably improved, people are just expecting to be "blown away" by next-gen graphics. If you look at the graphic, you can tell a noticeable difference between the last 2 pictures. However, the difference is a lot more subtle and requires a closer eye than the earlier jumps. Basically, I'm just saying that the leap from current-gen to next-gen will be much less than last-gen to current-gen. From the PS1 to the PS2 to the PS3 to the PS4, each console's graphical leap was less. Somebody may crack a code and make a huge leap. However, I think improvements will be more in movements than the models themselves, ie. having people walk less rigid, non-robotic lips when speaking, actual facial expressions etc. Eyes, skin, clothes, hair (is hit or miss) has been nailed down pretty good current-gen. Every next-gen game will have facial expressions like La Noire basically.

There are already games out that are huge leaps over PS360 era though... and its not like early PS360 games were blowing late gen Xbox (specifically Xbox because it had by far had the best graphical capabilities) games out of the water. Remember Wall Guy? Here, this is Ninja Gaiden Black (Xbox) vs. Wall Guy (Xbox 360)

Spoiler

Spoiler

And like I said, polygon count isn't everything. Here's a reddit post from an artist at Guerrilla titled, "Why the 'diminishing returns' picture is a bad example":

Quote:

Hi, video game artist from Guerrilla Games here! You may know us from the Killzone series. While the picture OP posted is accurate in the sense of downres/upres methodologies, there is a very important point to be made here. It's true that subdividing a 2k poly model will not result in a more detailed model. And that downscaling a 20k model will result in a more accurate 2k representation. But this is not what game graphics are about. We have almost stopped caring about polygon counts in the last couple of years. Increasing the poly count beyond 5k for the bust that is shown in the example picture will add almost nothing. The contour may look a little better, but that's it. What actually happens in current AND next gen games is that the detail contained in the hipoly model is baked into a "normal map". It's a texture that defines the surface angle for every pixel. That way, even though the model may be relatively low poly, the lighting on it looks like the full high res model. The guys over at Epic games did a great demonstration of this back in 2006, but it looks like they removed that part of their website by now. It was a great demonstration of how a 4 million poly character model was downressed to 9000 polies and effectively looked the same because of normal maps. So anyways - about the actual issue at hand; there really is a diminishing returns issue in games. Every time you double the amount of polygons, the subject will only look marginally better than the previous generation did. The difference between PS1 and PS2 was enormous. The difference between PS2 and PS3 was smaller, although still very significant. The difference between PS3 and PS4 is clearly noticeable, but it's not as big a leap as previous generations were. Future generations will no doubt offer smaller changes in graphical fidelity, and put more focus on added features. #edit: Wow! So many responses. I'd love to answer them all but don't have the time. Some clarification: Poly counts still matter! When I said "stopped caring" I meant that we don't design objects with the intent of saving on polygons. We still do crazy amounts of optimization once the object is made. And of course we use Level of Detail models to reduce poly counts of objects that are further away from the camera. There are still great improvements to be made in graphics technology. We're moving away from static pre-baked lighting and that means we want to simulate light bouncing around in real time. That's ridiculously demanding on the hardware. And you wouldn't see the difference in a screenshot, but you will see it when objects and lights move around. Game graphics can still get loads better, but the improvements won't come in the form of higher poly counts. At least not by much. Look forward to stuff like realtime global illumination, particles, dynamics, fluids, cloth and hair, etc. It's not necessarily stuff that will make screenshots look better, but it will definitely make game worlds feel more alive. Also; THANKS FOR THE GOLD! Feel free to call on me if you need me in the future. Cheers!

And btw, here's the "diminishing returns" pic he's talking about:

Spoiler

So yes, while he's saying the actual models might not improve much, game graphics is so much more than that. Lighting, textures, etc. are equally as important.

So I think we agree in some aspects lol

[XMrAngryEyesxX]

I don't if anyone has seen this, but IGN put up a video of Pence playing Injustice and kills the IGN guy he's playing and said he plays that game so I guess he does play just not sports games? Or specifically his own sport's game?
Anyways, great stream in regards to the game, as everyone has said the visuals are great and I think this could be our first look into what EA said when they coined the term "living worlds". This is just the beginning but it looks like a great start. I just keeping thinking the lighting in this game could revolutionize Madden because it has always seemed night games were pale in comparison to day games but if EA can make strides like this then hopefully we will be able to see the "living worlds" they hope to have in the future.

[TheFlamingWeazel]

People have terrible memories. Look at ps3 launch games, then look at Uncharted , god of war. Ps4 games already took big leaps from ps3 (Infamous), that will only get better. We are not even close to diminishing returns. There is a lot more to engines then poly count... This gen is off to a much better start then last.

[tessl]

Quote: Originally Posted by Russell_SCEA

Exhibition on another note I have a little something special for the MOM guys in the pipeline.

That's great news but there is one thing I have to bring up. I bet my son you would beat Puig in the home run derby, loser had to cut the grass all summer. Good thing I have a riding lawnmower.

Just kidding, great video.

[SVCbearcat10]

Quote: Originally Posted by seanjeezy

There are already games out that are huge leaps over PS360 era though... and its not like early PS360 games were blowing late gen Xbox (specifically Xbox because it had by far had the best graphical capabilities) games out of the water. Remember Wall Guy? Here, this is Ninja Gaiden Black (Xbox) vs. Wall Guy (Xbox 360) Spoiler Spoiler And like I said, polygon count isn't everything. Here's a reddit post from an artist at Guerrilla titled, "Why the 'diminishing returns' picture is a bad example": And btw, here's the "diminishing returns" pic he's talking about: Spoiler So yes, while he's saying the actual models might not improve much, game graphics is so much more than that. Lighting, textures, etc. are equally as important. So I think we agree in some aspects lol

I think that was what I was trying to get at. The models themselves may not look too different. The PS3 screenshot of The Show will look very similar but noticeably different from the PS4 screenshot. That is why people can't expect to be blown away by the graphics, the actual models are already quite good. However, how everything interacts (which indirectly affects graphics) will be improved greatly. We will see facial expressions, hair swaying in the wind or when running, a person holding an bat more naturally, a ball releasing off a pitcher's fingertips properly, etc.

[joedogg9999]

I cant wait for the day MLB The Show has models, facial detail, cloth and equipment physics, and overall stunning realism of the characters from Ryse. You cant tell me mlb 14 on ps4 has maxed out its player models when a game already out blows them out of the stratosphere.

[chaz526]

Diminishing returns or not - what is going to make the new generation of video games look spectacular is the lighting. Not the polygon count.