FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by charter04

My bad.

I don't think that was really directed at you. I don't recall you being condescending and resorting to name calling.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Coincidentally, I'm also a Cowboys fan. The way I saw Tyron Smith's ratings, all his pass blocking ratings are really good (assuming the average individual rating is indeed 70), but just as DCEBB described a criticism of his coming out of college was that he was weak at the point of attack in the run game. His footwork ratings in both PBF and RBF both look to be Top 5 at the LT position amongst all players graded too, which I'm assuming is correlated his Smith's praise in his technique as opposed to his physical presence; I don't think anyone has ever called him a dominant lineman to the extent that, say, Walter Jones was. The ratings correlated pretty well with what I thought about him, personally. Dude's only 23 too, so he's going to be around for a while and hopefully only get better.

Bingo! You have to take a holistic approach to analyzing these players. Do you think coaches, GMs, and scouts just look at the equivalent of a player's "OVR Rating" when evaluating talent? Heck no!

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by charter04

Donnie Moore!? What are you doing on this thread!? Lol 5 life time posts on OS and 100% seem to know more than anyone about Madden ratings. Shouldn't you be working on giving 80% of the players 90+ overalls and cover boy Richard Sherman 99's in every category?

If that IS Donny Moore, he is doing a great job arguing for everyone being 90+ in everything so all of the players play the same with no differentiation whatsoever.

[da professor]

Quote: Originally Posted by DCEBB2001

If that IS Donny Moore, he is doing a great job arguing for everyone being 90+ in everything so all of the players play the same with no differentiation whatsoever.

I never said that the players mentioned deserved to be 90's. I just gave examples of flaws.
Tyron Smith isn't a 76
Doug Free isn't a 86

Smith is leaps and bounds better that Free.

Travis Frederick - I didn't have a problem with his overall rating, but I looked into his attributes and his run blocking is low. He is a top 5 run blocking center in the league, but has major issues in pass protection. Your explanation didn't address this.

Ray Rice/LeSean McCoy - According to your ratings, Rice is faster, more agile, and quicker than LeSean McCoy. How in the world is this possible? Nothing from last year would suggest this at all. In fact it is quite opposite...Rice should be rated lower in all of those categories.

Rob Gronkowski - 73 speed 72 agility
Jason Witten - 78 speed 75 agility
Jimmy Graham - 80 speed 78 agility

I believe Witten is about right, but the others are low especially Gronk. Both Graham and Gronk are much faster than Witt...they are basically receivers. Makes zero sense.

[Hooe]

I think you may be missing the point - all of the data in DCEBB's rating system, as I understand it, is drawn from hard numbers which grade the player absent a football team, ergo statistical measures and game day performance in a team setting aren't as relevant. The idea of the system is to rate players isolated from each other; i.e. Ray Rice's ratings don't go down because the Ravens' offensive line was in such turmoil last year.

For example, on LeSean McCoy and Rice - Rice ran a faster 40 time, faster 20 yard split, faster 10 yard split, had more bench reps, had a better vertical, had a better broad jump, had a better 20-yard shuttle, and a better 3-cone drill at the NFL Combine than McCoy did at his Pro Day (he did not participate in the NFL Combine due to illness). The hard data here, absent anything that has happened on the field, indicates that Ray Rice is a better athlete than LeSean McCoy.

Same with Rob Gronkowski and Jason Witten with respect to top-end speed; the documented time I could find for Witten (4.65) bests Gronkowski's (4.68). So he's a little faster at full speed than Gronk is. Looking at the rest of the ratings in detail, FBGRatings has Gronk listed as the more dynamic receiver, with far better CIT and SPC ratings than Witten, while Witten is a more balanced all-around player as he possesses superior blocking ratings. As to Graham, Graham's best 40 time I can find is 4.50, so he's significantly faster than Witten or Gronk, as expected, and he's rated as a very dynamic receiver who offers little in the blocking game, again as expected.

[da professor]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

I think you may be missing the point - all of the data in DCEBB's rating system, as I understand it, is drawn from hard numbers which grade the player absent a football team, ergo statistical measures and game day performance in a team setting aren't as relevant. The idea of the system is to rate players isolated from each other; i.e. Ray Rice's ratings don't go down because the Ravens' offensive line was in such turmoil last year. For example, on LeSean McCoy and Rice - Rice ran a faster 40 time, faster 20 yard split, faster 10 yard split, had more bench reps, had a better vertical, had a better broad jump, had a better 20-yard shuttle, and a better 3-cone drill at the NFL Combine than McCoy did at his Pro Day (he did not participate in the NFL Combine due to illness). The hard data here, absent anything that has happened on the field, indicates that Ray Rice is a better athlete than LeSean McCoy. Same with Rob Gronkowski and Jason Witten with respect to top-end speed; the documented time I could find for Witten (4.65) bests Gronkowski's (4.68). So he's a little faster at full speed than Gronk is. Looking at the rest of the ratings in detail, FBGRatings has Gronk listed as the more dynamic receiver, with far better CIT and SPC ratings than Witten, while Witten is a more balanced all-around player as he possesses superior blocking ratings. As to Graham, Graham's best 40 time I can find is 4.50, so he's significantly faster than Witten or Gronk, as expected, and he's rated as a very dynamic receiver who offers little in the blocking game, again as expected.

You can't base your ratings solely on combine times and results especially when many are years removed from combine. Players get stronger and faster in the NFL. It is their profession. Some slack off, while others get faster or stronger via diet and training. Perfect example is Terrell Owens. TO was running 4.55-4.6 at draft time. He is running 4.40's right now. Combine is also different than with pads...it is essentially useless. You judge a players speed while they are playing the game not in shorts.

[Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by da professor

You can't base your ratings solely on combine times and results especially when many are years removed from combine. Players get stronger and faster in the NFL. It is their profession. Some slack off, while others get faster or stronger via diet and training. Perfect example is Terrell Owens. TO was running 4.55-4.6 at draft time. He is running 4.40's right now. Combine is also different than with pads...it is essentially useless. You judge a players speed while they are playing the game not in shorts.

FBGRatings' philosophy, as I understand it, is that "game speed" vs "timed speed" is captured in the ratings that aren't SPD / AGI / ACC. For example, Richard Sherman isn't the fastest timed CB, but his 98 MCV and ZCV ratings means he's going to be able to read every cut a receiver makes and break on a thrown ball as soon as the QB's shoulder moves, regardless how fast Sherman himself runs in a straight line, so he's going to have a jump on the receiver to get to the spot of the pass sooner.

The usefulness of speed in shorts and speed in pads can be debated, surely, but FBGRatings wants hard data for everything in its system, and the speed-in-shorts numbers are the only hard data that exists. Ergo they are the ones that get used in this system. If you don't agree with that methodology, that's fine, you're free to ignore it.

[charter04]

Quote: Originally Posted by da professor

You can't base your ratings solely on combine times and results especially when many are years removed from combine. Players get stronger and faster in the NFL. It is their profession. Some slack off, while others get faster or stronger via diet and training. Perfect example is Terrell Owens. TO was running 4.55-4.6 at draft time. He is running 4.40's right now. Combine is also different than with pads...it is essentially useless. You judge a players speed while they are playing the game not in shorts.

Lol. "Combine is also different than with pads...it is essentially useless" NFL coaches, GM's, and teams sure waist a lot of valuable time on something that is useless. Obviously film study plays a big part too but, useless? Scouting data and film study are a part of these too.

If you want ratings based solely on film and opinion then the Madden ones should be great.

1. The way these are done aren't changing no matter how much you don't like it.
2. Some of us love the way these rosters play on the field. Who cares about the overalls. As long as they play as they should.

3. Obviously you don't like them so why are you spending so much time arguing in this thread when point 1 and 2 aren't changing?