Madden 16: Is Connected Franchise Sacrificing Realism? (Roundtable)

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by jpdavis82

Like I said before, CFM got the bulk of the resources this year, but that doesn't mean everything they invested in made the cut for 16. The game is NOT taking CFM in a more casual/less realistic direction. Kolbe has some really creative/sim things he wants to do, the goal this year was make it more accessible and fun so more people will play the mode and hopefully like it more. I know there aren't a lot of improvements for the sim/hardcore CFM crowd yet, but there will be in the future, the scouting was redone, combine results, free practice, visual depth chart, tuned confidence & regression, so it's not all just for the casual in M16.

How is making a mode more accessible not making it more casual? Accessible = Casual.

I'm not saying that it is necessarily a bad thing, so don't get it twisted. Sometimes the word casual is thrown around like an insult and anything about the game someone does not like gets the casual label. Case in point I have seen guys in the past point to the lack of a fantasy draft as evidence that EA does not care for sim gamers.

My next point is about you JP. Are you the eternal optimist or do you hope to get a job with EA or something? Before the big info release you were telling guys that this will be the year Madden turns the corner. Now you have reverted back to the this will all payoff in the end routine. You have implied that the gameplay improvements will wow us and sell most people on the game. I don't mean to come off as I am attacking you, I'm just curious. Aren't you tired of telling us things will drastically improve?

[Herky]

I was leery of Connected Franchise when it was announced and am very disappointed in the direction it's going in.

I don't understand why EA couldn't have just taken a great franchise experience that was had in Head Coach and input that into Madden.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Casual fans care about franchise mode. They just dont care about restricted free agency, formation subs, 5 yr contracts etc.

How do you know this? Is there some quantitative measure you are using for this?

Anyone who plays a game cares about something that engrosses them. If that weren't true, then NBA 2k (for example) would never sell a copy. It's ridiculously in depth compared to what we have for football. Whether you like it or not is not the discussion here. It is the FACT that it is massive in depth from player controls, to playbooks, to the depth in the league and my player modes. If you like or love sports, you are interested in these things. There are modes in games for someone to just play a game of madden every once in a great while, however, those who are routinely buying the game every year (or a yearly sports game in general) are interested in a deep, immersive sports game.

I was discussing this very thing with a co-worker of mine. He plays MLB the show. He plays it daily. He does not follow Major League Baseball though. He doesn't watch MLB games on TV and doesn't really have a favorite team. He is what you would call your "casual" gamer. (I hate that term, because I think it is nonsense, but that's a whole different discussion). He plays it because he loves how immersive it is and how much stuff there is to do OUTSIDE of just playing the games. The team management aspects, contract aspects, player and personality management, etc. etc. all gets him psyched to play it.

This is my problem with Tiburon's approach. They claim that they want more people to play certain modes because not enough people are playing them. They reason isn't because they are "too in depth" or difficult. They aren't playing them because they are oversimplified, boring and there is very little immersion. There is a reason why so many of the people who went there providing input asked for an option to skip pre-season. Why do people want to skip it? Simple... Because it's pointless. It's just another game except worse. No confidence, no position battling, no real evaluation or storylines get generated about break out players, nothing. There is nothing interesting about it. Why bother? So instead of thinking along these lines, let's just make it one less thing to bother doing in the offseason/pre-season. Pretty soon there will be no point to contract negotiation or player management. Why bother? The contracts are simple beyond belief. There is nothing fun about managing my team. I simply offer 3 or 4 contracts to the player and he accepts or he says buzz off. Big deal. There is nothing about him outperforming a contract or having a major injury affect his value or price in the market. There is nothing that is exciting about doing any of this. How about weekly prep? You guys always talk about them wanting to make Madden fun for the masses. How is gameprep fun? I click a few buttons and rush through. I don't know anyone who is excited about preparing their team to play the following week. How about the ability to prepare like a real NFL team would? Give me a host of things to do that could affect my team differently than another guy's team in my league. How am I managing my injured players? Are they getting the best care? (Obviously I am touching on only a few examples here). There is so much that could be done here it's not even funny. These are the things that are fun. Something that is truly engaging and immerses me into the fantasy of running my own NFL franchise. Of course, you can always make it easier. Have OPTIONS (imagine that) that allow the user to be in control of as much or as little as he/she desires. There is so little in CFM currently that immerses a user into the feeling they are running an NFL team.

No one is asking to simply skip through everything and just get to the games. This is why people who are single player folks (I am not one of them, online league only) play the game for 2 weeks and then forget about it. It's boring. The actual games are only a small fraction of a franchise mode, and clearly, you can see that many people don't even PLAY the actual games. They want to be immersed in the management aspects and the play calling. Without that, those long time franchise mode fans are now alienated and don't feel inclined to play or purchase Madden.

[roadman]

^^

I don' fall into that category, though. My games take over an hour to finish as it is. I just don't have the time to get all immersed as I did when I was younger with radio shows, mini drills, etc.....

I'm probably in the minority.

[ggsimmonds]

This may be somewhat off topic, or at least threatens to lead to off topic discussions, so I will try to be careful here.

I think Madden's problem is an identity crisis. I know we frown on mentioning other titles in the Madden forum but think about this -- What does NBA 2k try to do? The answer, I think, is fairly obvious. They try to make the best NBA basketball game they can.

What does Madden try to do? That is difficult to answer. I think they are too obsessed with Madden's reputation as the best pvp sports title. Also, instead of simply deciding to make the best NFL game they can, they are too concerned with trying to appeal to gamers (the dreaded casual angle).

Funny thing is, the NFL is by far the most popular sports league in the nation. If EA stops over thinking things and decides to just make a good NFL game the results would probably be better.

This is not a off topic rant because CFM is at the heart of the matter. I am confident that the revamped scouting was done with the goal in mind to level the playing field in online CFM. Creating a realistic system was secondary. The goal system I believe is designed to give some gamers an idea of what they should be aiming for. For whatever reason EA thinks if they just make a NFL game most gamers will be lost or something.

So yeah, realism is being sacrificed to make a fun video game. What EA fails to realize is that they are wrong. A damn tragedy lol

[PVarck31]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

^^ I don' fall into that category, though. My games take over an hour to finish as it is. I just don't have the time to get all immersed as I did when I was younger with radio shows, mini drills, etc..... I'm probably in the minority.

I don't think you're in the minority. I don't think "casual" gamers get as deep into the game some think. In fact, I was just at a friends house today and he doesn't own a system but is thinking about getting a PS4. He wants to be able to play MLB with me online. He played in the minors got to AA and asked if the minor league teams were in, and I said yeah, you can manage a 40 man roster, and all your farm teams rosters, and he said I don't need all that, I just wanna play with the Arkansas Travelers, because that's who he played for.

I have another friend who just plays exhibition games on his 360. Never even bothers with franchise mode. I don't think they are in the minority. I think a lot of people start franchise modes but never even finish a whole season.

So yes, I think there are "casual" gamers out there, and I don't think they get as deep into the games as "hardcore" gamers.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by PVarck31

I don't think you're in the minority. I don't think "casual" gamers get as deep into the game some think. In fact, I was just at a friends house today and he doesn't own a system but is thinking about getting a PS4. He wants to be able to play MLB with me online. He played in the minors got to AA and asked if the minor league teams were in, and I said yeah, you can manage a 40 man roster, and all your farm teams rosters, and he said I don't need all that, I just wanna play with the Arkansas Travelers, because that's who he played for. I have another friend who just plays exhibition games on his 360. Never even bothers with franchise mode. I don't think they are in the minority. I think a lot of people start franchise modes but never even finish a whole season. So yes, I think there are "casual" gamers out there, and I don't think they get as deep into the games as "hardcore" gamers.

If this is truly the case, then why do any of these game companies bother with these in depth modes? I guess the 2k devs, MLB the Show devs and the old, old madden devs are all clueless because they believed in creating these modes. Why are there games like Witcher 3 out there? It's a massive time commitment, but it has sold very well. I'm sure not everyone just wants to skip the whole story and make a dash to the finish line as fast as possible, right? You will entice people to play something if it is worth it. Even so, there is no reason that you have to force someone to play those types of modes. It seems to me that we are now in a period where the purpose of a game is to be finished with it as quickly as possible without even getting involved in it. Playing a game is like anything else in life, you make time to do it. If you don't have time, you aren't going to have time whether it's lacking in depth or has all of the depth in the world. Realism doesn't go hand in hand with "time-consuming" or "difficult". Accessibility can be accomplished along with realism, and even old versions of Madden proved this to be true.

[PVarck31]

Quote: Originally Posted by GiantBlue76

If this is truly the case, then why do any of these game companies bother with these in depth modes? I guess the 2k devs, MLB the Show devs and the old, old madden devs are all clueless because they believed in creating these modes. Why are there games like Witcher 3 out there? It's a massive time commitment, but it has sold very well. I'm sure not everyone just wants to skip the whole story and make a dash to the finish line as fast as possible, right? You will entice people to play something if it is worth it. Even so, there is no reason that you have to force someone to play those types of modes. It seems to me that we are now in a period where the purpose of a game is to be finished with it as quickly as possible without even getting involved in it. Playing a game is like anything else in life, you make time to do it. If you don't have time, you aren't going to have time whether it's lacking in depth or has all of the depth in the world. Realism doesn't go hand in hand with "time-consuming" or "difficult". Accessibility can be accomplished along with realism, and even old versions of Madden proved this to be true.

Look, I'm not saying Madden's franchise mode shouldn't be more in-depth, because it should be. I'm just saying I think people over-estamate the amount of players who want every fine detail to be included in that mode.

I think a lot of people just want to breeze through the week and play their next game and make it to the Super Bowl and then they are happy.

I'm just saying I think there are more people like that than people like us who want every little detail of a real season and so on. I bet if you asked 10 dudes how restricted free agency works you'd be lucky if half of them would even know.

I don't know maybe I'm wrong and everyone knows