Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

[charter04]

And by the way I pay money for PFF's premium stats. So I'm not against that at all. I just don't think it's a good source for determining skills or attributes of players.

Not saying the info can't be valuable.


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[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by charter04

It depends on how truly accurate you want ratings to be. If you want productions based ratings then EA's traditional ratings should work for you. It's the same basic method Tecmo Super Bowl used. That's why the TB Bucs had the best CB in that game. He had like 12 ints the year they based everything on. He wasn't even that good of a corner though. He just had one of those years. Kind of like Larry Brown getting 2 ints in the Super Bowl and winning the MVP but, was an average talent and more a result of the system and just being at the right place at the right time. I would rather let actual scouting data determine how players are rated and the results will be what they are. Just like real life. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Madden is not developed as well to do that though. No video game is. Every sports title uses production to grade players.

Yes, they have problems in how exactly they do it. I for one find their changes of player's physical ratings like speed to represent a very large problem in their rating process, but there is nothing wrong with the approach itself.

Madden is not a scouting tool, I would hope no one uses it as such. If Antonio Brown has a higher RTR in game than AJ Green I do not think anyone should take that as anything more than Madden's way to arrive at desired results.

I like to think of the electron and quantum physics. I cannot remember who exactly said it (Hawking maybe) but he mentioned that they don't know if the electron actually behaves this way in reality, nor do they care. They only care that this model allows for accurate predictions and it works. I view Madden in the same way.

Also, scouting data is not inherently superior. Madden would not become more objective if it primarily or only used scouting data. The two methods are equally subjective and opinion driven.

All I am saying is that there should be a combination, and not to disqualify PFF because they are not concerned with poor technique when Madden does not even replicate technique in the game!

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

Meaning only rate players by scouting data. To me that is just as foolish as only relying on PFF or conventional stats.

I would only rate players based on the scouting data, so I wholeheartedly disagree. I do feel that PFF is less valid because of crap like this, and nothing will change my mind about that.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...ar-brad-jones/

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

Madden is not developed as well to do that though. No video game is. Every sports title uses production to grade players. Yes, they have problems in how exactly they do it. I for one find their changes of player's physical ratings like speed to represent a very large problem in their rating process, but there is nothing wrong with the approach itself. Madden is not a scouting tool, I would hope no one uses it as such. If Antonio Brown has a higher RTR in game than AJ Green I do not think anyone should take that as anything more than Madden's way to arrive at desired results. I like to think of the electron and quantum physics. I cannot remember who exactly said it (Hawking maybe) but he mentioned that they don't know if the electron actually behaves this way in reality, nor do they care. They only care that this model allows for accurate predictions and it works. I view Madden in the same way. Also, scouting data is not inherently superior. Madden would not become more objective if it primarily or only used scouting data. The two methods are equally subjective and opinion driven. All I am saying is that there should be a combination, and not to disqualify PFF because they are not concerned with poor technique when Madden does not even replicate technique in the game!

Scouting data is subjective, yes, but consider the sources. PFF uses three guys, who are admittedly, not scouts, to do their grading. My sources utilizes a team of professional scouts who are paid by an NFL front office to do their grading. You could sit here and argue all day that one is not better than the other, but as a person with a BA in history, I do know that the quality of your source material will no doubt affect the quality of your conclusions.

Just saying.

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by DCEBB2001

I would only rate players based on the scouting data, so I wholeheartedly disagree. I do feel that PFF is less valid because of crap like this, and nothing will change my mind about that. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...ar-brad-jones/

We would have to agree to disagree then. In most things, this included, limiting or restricting yourself to one thing is unwise. One should always consider all the evidence, utilize all resources, and consider different views or angles.

Quote: Originally Posted by DCEBB2001

Scouting data is subjective, yes, but consider the sources. PFF uses three guys, who are admittedly, not scouts, to do their grading. My sources utilizes a team of professional scouts who are paid by an NFL front office to do their grading. You could sit here and argue all day that one is not better than the other, but as a person with a BA in history, I do know that the quality of your source material will no doubt affect the quality of your conclusions. Just saying.

PFF's guys are not scouts no, nor do they claim to be. We both agree, and PFF acknowledges, that they are not in the business of scouting. So why discredit them because they are not professional scouts? Why would they be?

[KwiLL23]

A couple of things I don't like about PFF is that they have some positions wrong. When the hell has Eric Weddle and Harrison Smith played SS. A lot of players are like that on their depth charts. I don't trust their grading system neither with the High Quality, Average, and etc. ratings.

[khaliib]

What gets lost in the ratings discussion is "Animations" and that's the core of the systems problem no matter what data method is used.

For those ratings that are needed to trigger certain animations during gameplay, what is the best method/scale to be used as the mechanism to determine the triggering points?

If there are only "5" tackle animations the game will utilize, then any system that is used that incorporates data that goes beyond 5 is pointless because data after 5 isn't used.

Thus, is the issue with utilizing a 100 based scale for a particular rating, when there aren't 100 animations to be utilized for that rating.
Or any scale that's not in-line with number of possible triggering animations.

They should just render a particular rating according to the number of available animations to be the used.
As developement injects more animations for a particular rating, the scale should increase.
1) if there's currently 20 catch animations, then that's the scale for that rating.
2) if there's 5 tackle breaking animations, then that should be the scale.
We don't need to know the formula that dictates the win/loss of a triggered animation, just that said RB has/utilizes 3 tackle breaking animations out of 5, that he uses.
- not every back stiff arms, jukes, spin etc...

This is mainly dealing with those interaction ratings.
Of course ratings such Throw Power/Accuracy would require more under-the-hood structure even though they're animations also.

Not that this is the end all, be all answer to the issue, but it would provide a clean and applicable foundation that can be utilized within every mode of play or play style.

Just thinking out loud!!!

[raidertiger]

Ratings are useless anyway in this game. Been watching some Madden challenge videos and it really makes apparent that in Madden, size and ratings are nearly irrelevant apart from the speed, throwing and kicking ratings.