Madden NFL 16: Penalties Are Finally Going to Be a Thing

[Critical Kills]

I think this is awesome - about time too!!


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[SolidSquid]

Quote: Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S

What is true progressive route running?

Basically 2 things. Option routes where wr's read the defense and run the corresponding route. For example if he reads cover 2 he runs a post but if it's cover 3 he runs an out.(these are in the game now but are kinda unreliable). Secondly would be making slight route alterations based on what the defense does. So say a guy is supposed to run a 10 yard curl, but at the snap the cb starts back pedaling(cover 3) you can now break the route off sooner to have a better chance to get the ball in space.

[JOS1181]

Quote: Originally Posted by SolidSquid

Basically 2 things. Option routes where wr's read the defense and run the corresponding route. For example if he reads cover 2 he runs a post but if it's cover 3 he runs an out.(these are in the game now but are kinda unreliable). Secondly would be making slight route alterations based on what the defense does. So say a guy is supposed to run a 10 yard curl, but at the snap the cb starts back pedaling(cover 3) you can now break the route off sooner to have a better chance to get the ball in space.

I think that would go a long way to getting completion percentages closer to the real world even for the CPU. Add in a timing aspect and it would be even better.

To bad about offsetting penalties not being in.. I really wish they would have went all the way on penalties. I also wonder if late hits are now part of the game? Late hit OB / Roughing the Passer etc.

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S

What is true progressive route running?

Quote: Originally Posted by SolidSquid

Basically 2 things. Option routes where wr's read the defense and run the corresponding route. For example if he reads cover 2 he runs a post but if it's cover 3 he runs an out.(these are in the game now but are kinda unreliable). Secondly would be making slight route alterations based on what the defense does. So say a guy is supposed to run a 10 yard curl, but at the snap the cb starts back pedaling(cover 3) you can now break the route off sooner to have a better chance to get the ball in space.

Yes. In a nut shell, that.

I have been writing blogs outside of Operation Sports about the Bill Walsh West Coast Offense, and one of them was all about WR Routes.

WCO Route Tree & Auxiliary Tree

Spoiler

The following links are the detailed coaching points on how to run specific routes against a variety of coverages and looks:
Go - Different from the Stick route
Come Back
Hook - Different from the Curl route.
Deep Post
Corner
Circle Out
In - Different from the Center route.
Slant
Quick Out
Out


I don't expect that level of depth any time soon, if ever, but I do want to focus on a few of those charts in particular:

Notice how the Deep Post changes to a Go route against "Nose" & "Bump Trail" coverage. Against "Bracket" coverage the post is cut off and turned into something that resembles a deep "slant and go" of sorts.

Notice how the Cricle Out (often called the C routes in Madden) can adjust to a Deep Out, or a form of Deep Come Back based on the coverage.

Notice how the Quick Out can turn into a fade against Cleo (Cloud) and and tight bump (man or zone) coverages.

There are some of these kinds of "option routes" in Madden, and they have been a part of the game since Madden 2005. As was said earlier, they are unreliable, though I think some of that can be "blamed" on the route running rating. EA claims that the route running rating (formerly awareness) had an impact on the decision making of the receiver in question. This goes back to the offensive and defensive play calls being tied together internally. The Offensive line knows who is supposed to blitz and from where. The DBs know the routes the receivers are running, which is why they can jump routes before the WR even starts his break at times, and how the AI know which option route is the "right choice" against a specific coverage. Supposedly, the Route Running Rating was supposed to be the "X-factor dice roll/random chance" of making the wrong choice. that is all well and good to me. I just wish it would have been expanded upon in the last 11 years.

The only routes I am aware of that take advantage of this are some Curl-to-Quick In/Quick Out options by the TE, a Post-to-Out option on "Falcon Post," and the Deep Comeback on "Colts Divide/Levels." There might be a few more, but not many. Certainly not on nearly every passing play in the game like it "should be" for pretty much every receiver.

I understand how that might be too overwhelming for new/casual players... but we are talking about NFL receivers who usually make the right choices far more often than not, and on Rookie/Pro difficulty, EA can set the ratio of "correct/incorrect" decision making to like 95% or what ever.

If you call "Raven Quick Outs" from ACE, then both X & Y are running quick outs while your two TEs are running curls. If the defense is a cover 2 man/zone press, you could audible out of it, or the game can have the receivers adjust to the route correctly and try to beat their man. Even a new/casual player is going to want to force a throw into that coverage and end up with a pick 6.

You see... that is the big deal to me. These "option routes" actually help new/casual players by getting their receivers open more consistently. Instead of the receiver just running into coverage, they should read the coverage, adjust and work to get open. So much of what I advocate in terms of representing a recreating football would actually HELP the casual/new player in my opinion.

*Nano blitzes would, in theory stop existing because linemen would be block their area instead of getting confused and letting players run right passed them.

*Normal overload blitzes would work instead of having a backside guard or tackle swing all the way around to block an OLB.

*Proper Pass protection schemes would account for those over load blitzes and the backs would pick them up instead of going on the designated routes - Imagine if almost all HB/FB routes were blue now with the exception of a few plays like screens and Texas, or the few plays that have the TE/FB block, so the TE would have a blue route instead of the HB.

*What if the agility/acceleration/man coverage/route running ratings would have more of an impact on the game, rather than the DBs just mirroring routes.

*What if the Alex Gibbs zone blocking rules applied?

*What if they brought back the classic PS2 era Madden trainer "football 101" feature where John Madden, or someone actually taught you core football plays? When I was a teenager I used to log hours upon hours in that thing. I think it was Madden 2002, 2003 and maybe 2004.

Yes, there was a time when EA actively tried to teach you how to be better at football and their video game... and for the most part it worked. They would hold your hand and take you through the baby steps. This is different than the "mini camp" drills and games. There was a mode when Madden would tell you the play, the objective of the play, then an animation showed what it was supposed to look like, and finally asked you to repeat it.

I know this isn't directly related to the topic on hand, but in terms of improving the game... this is 2015 (Madden 16) and this is stuff I was posting about before Madden 10 came out. Most of it is in the game in one way or another but needs improvement, or was in the game and removed for an unknown reason.

[Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

What if they brought back the classic PS2 era Madden trainer "football 101" feature where John Madden, or someone actually taught you core football plays? When I was a teenager I used to log hours upon hours in that thing. I think it was Madden 2002, 2003 and maybe 2004. Yes, there was a time when EA actively tried to teach you how to be better at football and their video game... and for the most part it worked. They would hold your hand and take you through the baby steps. This is different than the "mini camp" drills and games. There was a mode when Madden would tell you the play, the objective of the play, then an animation showed what it was supposed to look like, and finally asked you to repeat it.

They did this already. Skills Trainer introduced the instruction of real-life football passing and coverage concepts in Madden NFL 15, and it's handled completely differently and much more thoroughly than the PS2 games ever did it.

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

They did this already. Skills Trainer introduced the instruction of real-life football passing and coverage concepts in Madden NFL 15, and it's handled completely differently and much more thoroughly than the PS2 games ever did it.

oh, wow. that is great. Is that on the 360 version of the game? I don't have an Xbox 1 or PS4. I hope it will be in Madden 16. I'd like to get a new copy when it comes out.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Okay, I wasn't clear on the fact that i know what progressive route running is, I was asking what PGaither84 thought it meant in regards to MAdden...As I see it, MAdden allows your to hot route which would be identifying the coverage and adjust routes...

I am to assume PGaither84 means he wants the WR's to do the route change automatically? We can hot route to check/release in M15, so that is good, but primitive.

I would like more options in routes to change to...I prefer more control as opposed to just making everything automatic and I just watch..

The OL and DL interactions and assignments and adjustments need to be automatic, based on football fundamentals, because they are currently not working completely as they should, and the OL needs to be made automatic, more importantly, in it's assignments and adjustments because a user cannot control them...

Ratings need to matter more - and I hate the mirroring by defenders...

[badman33462]

Quote: Originally Posted by JOS1181

I think that would go a long way to getting completion percentages closer to the real world even for the CPU. Add in a timing aspect and it would be even better. To bad about offsetting penalties not being in.. I really wish they would have went all the way on penalties. I also wonder if late hits are now part of the game? Late hit OB / Roughing the Passer etc.

Late hits out of bounds are in the game this year. I've gotten called for them a few times