Madden NFL 16: A Noob's Perspective

[AaronS444]

roadman,

I've been waiting, far too long.

And I don't need your warnings. I know how EA bashers are treated around here.

I've been around since the MaddenMania days. I've had many a conversation with ChrisS. I'll trust he and the other mods allow members to vent their frustrations occasionally.


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[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

What counts as significant progress? In the last five years Madden NFL has added real-time physics to collisions, refactored components of the game such as blocking, passing accuracy, and pass coverage countless times to make the behavior more authentic, produced and built upon the only full-featured online franchise mode in modern sports video games, built a whole new way to play the game in Ultimate Team which has introduced the game to a whole new audience, and is the only sports video game to-date with a comprehensive teaching tool to not only familiarize new players with the tools needed to succeed in playing the game but also the strategies and concepts real football teams use to win on Sundays. In fact, a bunch of these things are called out in this article as things which the self-proclaimed "noob" user enjoyed and/or found useful. Heck, I personally think Skills Trainer is one of the best things - if not the very best thing - that's ever been added into any sports game.

You could say they refactored blocking, pass accuracy and pass coverage. But that's it. They refactored it. As in changed it slightly. Everything is tethered still. It's a tweaking of logic they've used for years. Real time physics was added to existing animations. It's welcome, but not significant progress in that many other games have better physics engines.

Ps2 madden had an EA locker that put the entire franchise mode online back then.

The comprehensive teaching tool was in ps2 as well. They did add some concepts to today's game, but the old mini games allowed you to practice everything from pocket awareness to playing coverage on defense.

Ultimate team is a revenue producing version of ps2 features as well. On the ps2 you could start a franchise with fantasy drafts. As you played different modes you collected coins to purchase cards to collect. You could argue that in some ways the ps2 version was better since people couldn't buy their ways to great teams.

What you call significant progress, I would call just making the game a modernized ps2 Madden.

[Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

What you call significant progress, I would call just making the game a modernized ps2 Madden.

Your opinion simply doesn't hold up whatsoever upon scrutiny of the two versions of the game.

Quote:

You could say they refactored blocking, pass accuracy and pass coverage. But that's it. They refactored it. As in changed it slightly. Everything is tethered still. It's a tweaking of logic they've used for years. Real time physics was added to existing animations. It's welcome, but not significant progress in that many other games have better physics engines.

First - that's not what refactor means.

Second - "refactor" was admittedly poor word choice on my part, I should have said "rewrote" because that's Tiburon actually did.

Third - I challenge you go put PS2 Madden NFL 08 (the last version of that game as far as I know) and PS4 Madden NFL 16 side-by-side and continue to reasonably proclaim that the difference in how things play out in the core gameplay is not dramatic.

Quote:

Ps2 madden had an EA locker that put the entire franchise mode online back then.

What you describe is specifically not online franchise. Online franchises specifically allow for concurrent user actions and games. Sharing a single franchise file over FTP isn't concurrent whatsoever.

I can't play my friend in California in the Super Bowl in a franchise file shared in this manner. Sharing a single franchise file also doesn't allow me to do a live draft with said friend who lives in California.

Quote:

The comprehensive teaching tool was in ps2 as well. They did add some concepts to today's game, but the old mini games allowed you to practice everything from pocket awareness to playing coverage on defense.

Present? Yes. Comprehensive? No.

The Mini-Camp mode that exists on the PS2 games - which included tossing tennis balls at quarterbacks and moving dummy blockers to provide a simple pantomime of run plays - doesn't hold a candle to Skills Trainer, which actually teaches real football. Mini-Camp can't begin to make that claim; it only teaches how to use the basic controls of the game - how to intercept passes, how to break tackles, how to throw different types of passes. It specifically does not teach how a Cover 2 defense works, how to identify it, and how to attack.

Put simply: Mini-Camp was designed to teach people the game mechanics of Madden, the video game. Skills Trainer was designed to teach people the strategy of American football. The difference in design goals and implementation is immediately apparent in how the two modes play out. Skills Trainer was specifically built to allow those who didn't know how to play football to have some mechanism to learn and have success in response to Madden NFL's emerging market overseas. Mini-Camp can't begin to make the claim of teaching people football strategy because it wasn't built to do that on any level.

Quote:

Ultimate team is a revenue producing version of ps2 features as well. On the ps2 you could start a franchise with fantasy drafts. As you played different modes you collected coins to purchase cards to collect. You could argue that in some ways the ps2 version was better since people couldn't buy their ways to great teams.

One - you can still start franchises with fantasy drafts. That was one of the very first additions to the new Connected Franchise, having been added into Madden NFL 13 with a title update upon popular demand.

Two - the Madden cards from those old games don't have any remotely similar function as cards do in Ultimate Team. The cards in the old games were cheats and temporary ratings boosts. No such thing exists in Ultimate Team, and in fact the cards you have affects the team you can put on the field. Ultimate Team also have components such as solo challenges, collections, and special edition cards which aren't represented at all in the old card system.



If we're going to criticize Madden, its accessibility, and its progress - and there are plenty of places to criticize it - let's at least have a based-in-reality description of what the thing is.

[AaronS444]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Third - I challenge you go put PS2 Madden NFL 08 (the last version of that game as far as I know) and PS4 Madden NFL 16 side-by-side and continue to reasonably proclaim that the difference in how things play out in the core gameplay is not dramatic.

Madden 08 PC is the best version of this game, thanks to the modding community.

What is lost on you, and EA, there is an entire generation that has grown up playing console football. NES, SNES, Sega, PS2.. Massive pixels to full HD.

We can adapt to any type of gameplay. Every version has its quirks.. And money plays.. And glitches.

I won't live and die by gameplay. It's great in 15 and 16. I'd venture to say the best ever.

But everything else doesn't hold up against past versions. 2005 has better features than current versions. An 11 year old product.

That is rediculous.

But it sells beacuse it's the only show in town.


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[kehlis]

Quote: Originally Posted by AaronS444

But it sells beacuse it's the only show in town.

Stop bringing this up in every thread/post.

It's been discussed ad nauseum and only deters from the actual conversation being had.

Thanks.

[Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by AaronS444

Madden 08 PC is the best version of this game, thanks to the modding community.

Subjective, but I'm glad you found something you enjoy. Personally, as much as I love modding games, I can't bear to play Madden 08 anymore.

Quote:

What is lost on you, and EA, there is an entire generation that has grown up playing console football. NES, SNES, Sega, PS2.. Massive pixels to full HD.

I mean, I'm not a Tecmo Bowl baby, but the first football game I played was NFL Quarterback Club on the Sega Genesis. To that I'm part of this very generation you speak of. I'm also plenty capable of looking beyond shiny graphics to make a personal value judgment about a game.

Quote:

But everything else doesn't hold up against past versions. 2005 has better features than current versions. An 11 year old product.

Also subjective, but personally I don't see much of a contest between the modes in Madden 05 and Madden 16, especially with respect to making the game more accessible to new players and growing the Madden and football community. This problem is widespread across all simulation sports games, but as far as I know only Madden has actively engaged the issue.

[Toupal]

I know where AaronS is coming from. I totally understand that EA wants to cater to the Noobs, because that is what the NFL has been doing for years. EA wants to get new users because they know that the fans who have been there for awhile, will continue to be there. Especially since there is no other football game on the market.

Look at the NFL for example...
It can be argued, but their breast cancer awareness month is used to market to women. It allows them to sell pink versions of whatever team they want. They make more money, and it appeals to women.

Hispanic Heritage Month... Everyone knows that Hispanics lean hard towards to futbol. They are going to keep having games in Mexico City and trying to expand to that community for years to come, because we see how huge soccer/ futbol is to a lot of the Latin countries.

And there is a reason they keep on having games in London. Ever since the fall of the European Football League, the NFL has been trying to get Europe, and especially out English speaking counterparts, the U.K. On board with the sport.

EA is going to do much of the same with their game. As soon as you get a new customer, it is a lot easier to retain that consumer.

How many people come to these forums each year and bash EA, Madden, and this game every year, and yet they still come back and buy the game each year? A lot. Because we have no where else to take our business, but we love gaming, and the game of football that much to continue playing our only option.

Until EA has competition, I think we aren't going to see any major leaps made in this game. We are going to see things added like "one button mode" in an exhibition game over a much more in depth CFM.

I'm not knocking them for catering to new madden players, because I was once that 7 year old who learned football through playing Madden 64, and I'm sure there is some kid learning the game through Madden 16.

However, I would love to see Maddens long time users, and one of it oldest game modes, franchise/CFM get the attention they deserve. I mean if I can get a 5% discount for being a Verizon wireless customer for 15 years, I think madden can find a way to build on a little more for its long time gamers.

[kehlis]

Let's get back to the topic of the story.