Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by bloobloouk

Some players faces can move due to their "Face Poser" features. I think that is what he's referring to. http://www.sbnation.com/2014/8/25/60...game-making-of Brady facial movement video - http://www.tubechop.com/watch/8030383

The first thing I thought of when I saw some of those head scans was "I wonder why guys that use mouthpieces didn't take some scans with them". Now that's of course hindsight because I've never ever thought about that before now so I can understand why that didn't happen.

It'll be interesting once they do add them for me to hear what method they ended up using, ie face scans, photoshop, etc.

[mrprice33]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

The first thing I thought of when I saw some of those head scans was "I wonder why guys that use mouthpieces didn't take some scans with them". Now that's of course hindsight because I've never ever thought about that before now so I can understand why that didn't happen. It'll be interesting once they do add them for me to hear what method they ended up using, ie face scans, photoshop, etc.

They'll be actual physics objects in the game world. Able to dangle, move, get jostled, etc. Like I said in another post on this topic, you'd have to be able to ensure that you can render 22 independent physics objects without sacrificing AI or performance, and you'd have to justify that work for something that not many people will ever see or notice. That's a really tall order.

Don't get me wrong, it would look real cool, and I would be impressed by it. I want them to be in there, for sure, but at a certain point, the reality is the reality.

[jstrick8]

I wish they would bring back turf tape also. Which Madden was it where you could set equipment for different field types? I believe that 04? Correct me if I'm wrong. Why not bring something like that back. Set equipment for indoor/outdoor, turf/grass. Very underrated feature they removed.

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[SolidSquid]

Quote: Originally Posted by mrprice33

So when you say cosmetic/animated, you still mean the larger mouthguard type, right? Because those can't be added cosmetically. That's the point. They have to move with the player's head and mouth. Otherwise you sacrifice that tech for mouthguards. And again, this is where we come down to choices. I think the thing I'm trying to get across most with my posts is that everything that happens in development has a choice and a consequence. If you do thing X, you might lose thing Y, or thing X might keep you from doing thing Y. When they decided to do face scanning and mouth movement, along with animated helmets, it made other things much more difficult, such as adding mouthguards, as one example. It's just like the CFM thread where people are talking about custom draft classes and lamenting how 2K has had them and Madden hasn't. That's because of the draft stories feature. They have to use generated rookies in order to generate draft stories, which is a thing 2K doesn't have at all. Now, there's probably a middle, and I can't say whether or not they'll ever hit it, but that's the basic reasoning behind not having custom, shareable draft classes. So to add custom draft classes would lose a big part of CFM immersion, which isn't a choice they want to make.

That's been the reason we've been told for years about custom draft classes. What point is a draft story though if you no longer hear about it after you select a player? I'd rather have realistically(or in line with base roster) ratings and realistic equipment, names, heights and weights than a story I hear for maybe 20 seconds when I pick a player.

[mrprice33]

Quote: Originally Posted by SolidSquid

That's been the reason we've been told for years about custom draft classes. What point is a draft story though if you no longer hear about it after you select a player? I'd rather have realistically(or in line with base roster) ratings and realistic equipment, names, heights and weights than a story I hear for maybe 20 seconds when I pick a player.

They haven't done a good enough job of building it out yet, I agree.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by mrprice33

So when you say cosmetic/animated, you still mean the larger mouthguard type, right? Because those can't be added cosmetically. That's the point. They have to move with the player's head and mouth. Otherwise you sacrifice that tech for mouthguards. And again, this is where we come down to choices. I think the thing I'm trying to get across most with my posts is that everything that happens in development has a choice and a consequence. If you do thing X, you might lose thing Y, or thing X might keep you from doing thing Y. When they decided to do face scanning and mouth movement, along with animated helmets, it made other things much more difficult, such as adding mouthguards, as one example. It's just like the CFM thread where people are talking about custom draft classes and lamenting how 2K has had them and Madden hasn't. That's because of the draft stories feature. They have to use generated rookies in order to generate draft stories, which is a thing 2K doesn't have at all. Now, there's probably a middle, and I can't say whether or not they'll ever hit it, but that's the basic reasoning behind not having custom, shareable draft classes. So to add custom draft classes would lose a big part of CFM immersion, which isn't a choice they want to make.

So Madden does have mouth movement in-game, hmm.

To your other point, that's them basically doing what they choose which then sometimes hinders what's expected down the line though. Here's the thing, if someone has played Madden 2005 and it has features, options, etc that weren't in say Madden 2006 360 because those things need to be added back/ported, that's one thing. However if you have that scenario except those same things aren't in because a developer chose to build differently/rewrite and now they can't be just simply added in like before, I think it's reasonable for gamers to be confused. It's reasonable to think the new versions of a game will not remove or diminish what was in previous versions, without either a timeline to add them back or replace them with something better.

What I'm saying is I agree that gamers can expect things to be done quicker then what's possible in Madden, ie mouthguards back in by now but the caveat to that is, it's sometimes not possible due to avoidable consequences caused by unfortunate choices. Right there is where things often get lost in translation because people think that's some suggestion to blame devs or whatever but it's not, plenty of them weren't even around when some of those unfortunate choices were made. Besides being the truth, it's a reason to be patient with gamers and understand why they have those expectations, not act as if they don't have a valid gripe.

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

What I'm saying is I agree that gamers can expect things to be done quicker then what's possible in Madden, ie mouthguards back in by now but the caveat to that is, it's sometimes not possible due to avoidable consequences caused by unfortunate choices. Right there is where things often get lost in translation because people think that's some suggestion to blame devs or whatever but it's not, plenty of them weren't even around when some of those unfortunate choices were made. Besides being the truth, it's a reason to be patient with gamers and understand why they have those expectations, not act as if they don't have a valid gripe.

Honestly I think that is why a majority of the things we want/expect in Madden by now is because of the poor architecture put in place coming into the last generation.

We know for a fact that coming into the last generation, the game was built just to have something to release/sell. I guess until those things are overhauled, we have to expect the team to encounter some hurdles. Some that are definitely not their fault....

[SolidSquid]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

So Madden does have mouth movement in-game, hmm. To your other point, that's them basically doing what they choose which then sometimes hinders what's expected down the line though. Here's the thing, if someone has played Madden 2005 and it has features, options, etc that weren't in say Madden 2006 360 because those things need to be added back/ported, that's one thing. However if you have that scenario except those same things aren't in because a developer chose to build differently/rewrite and now they can't be just simply added in like before, I think it's reasonable for gamers to be confused. It's reasonable to think the new versions of a game will not remove or diminish what was in previous versions, without either a timeline to add them back or replace them with something better. What I'm saying is I agree that gamers can expect things to be done quicker then what's possible in Madden, ie mouthguards back in by now but the caveat to that is, it's sometimes not possible due to avoidable consequences caused by unfortunate choices. Right there is where things often get lost in translation because people think that's some suggestion to blame devs or whatever but it's not, plenty of them weren't even around when some of those unfortunate choices were made. Besides being the truth, it's a reason to be patient with gamers and understand why they have those expectations, not act as if they don't have a valid gripe.

Well said. We havnt seen mouth guards since the jump to PS3/360. I know they didn't add facial animation and mouth movement until late into that console cycle and that's what bothers me. It seems everything they can't do now is bc of the lack of direction earlier.