MLB The Show 17 Twitch Stream - Presentation & Commentary

[Jon Arbuckle]

Quote: Originally Posted by Speedy

The bolded gets lost with people here on OS. I don't believe for a second SCEA is lazy or goes the easy way out...rather, they have integrity and dignity to ensure the game is the absolute best of the franchise. Also, they're baseball fans like us! If I recall, one of the devs was talking about their RTTS season last year and how some of the changes this year has him really excited for his own playing. Whether there is competition such as 2K or another firm, or if SCEA is the only baseball product out there...I truly believe each year's game is the best their team can provide.

Before I say some stuff that could be perceived as unduly harsh, I'd like to emphasize that I'm quite impressed and honestly surprised by how awesome The Show franchise continues to be despite its lack of serious competition. This is surely due to the passion and integrity of the development team and I give them full credit for going above and beyond what the market probably demands of them. Also, I do hope this post doesn't earn a ban since it's a continuation of a conversation involving a developer. The concept of market competition also has a direct impact on the quality of a game's commentary and presentation, something I'll touch on below.

All that said: I'm sorry but I think the bolded statement in the above post is a bit naive. Competition is almost always helpful as a motivator to greater efficiency and/or innovation. I used to casually play football games and I still remember how brutal the competition between 2K and EA was back in the early oughts. I loved the faster and more responsive gameplay of 2K on the Dreamcast but was blown away by the lifelike (for the time) first footage released of Madden on PS2 and played it for a couple years, during which time I grew to appreciate Madden's physics. Then 2K lured me back with improved graphics and a licensing agreement with ESPN (on topic!) at a ridiculous price. The advances made in football games during those years almost surely would have come more slowly had only one of those games had a virtual monopoly. I still remember how gutted I was when EA's exclusive deal to make NFL games was announced. And while I stopped playing football games long ago, from what I've heard EA most definitely could have used some competition in recent years.

Give The Show proper competition over the last five or so years and maybe we get proper hit physics earlier. Maybe unrealistic/poor CPU team management gets cleaned up. Maybe player models move beyond their PS3 roots more quickly. Maybe uni accuracy/inclusion becomes a bigger thing complete with DLC. Maybe retractable roofs are there from year one on PS4. Maybe commentary gets a revamp that much sooner (on topic!) Maybe the competition implements several of these improvements...

I myself have looked abroad for competition to The Show by importing PYS and while I still ended up coming back to The Show there are several aspects of the Konami game that I consider superior. One of the smaller examples of this (but on topic!) is PYS's hyper-realistic stadium advertisements. I can't begin to imagine how awesome baseball videogaming would be right now if Konami had also had an MLB license during these last five years or so.

[Speedy]

I understand your point but I don't believe it's naive to think competition isn't necessary to drive a company to new heights. If EA Sports was remaking MVP, I don't think that would change SCEA's model, ideas or gameplans for each years iteration. I believe they've proven, by their own full disclosure and willingness to listen/discuss to their fans that they strive to make the best game that the fans want. Ultimately, competition doesn't matter as much as making a product that satisfies its users.

In any event...that's going outside of the thread here. Send me a PM if you want to discuss it further.

[Caulfield]

Quote: Originally Posted by capa

Commentary is tough...you can't be all things to all people. What gets old? anecdotes commentary tied to a certain type of hit any type of joking back and forth between announcers What does not get old? comments on player performance during game comments on player performance during season comments on player career numbers stats on how player has performed against pitcher in past comments on current standings, races You can see that the items that do not get old are pretty much all stats based...and that's just a few examples. The color guys get old, drag the commentary down to a certain degree. No knock on these guys as announcers, but it is the paradigm the game has to use. Baseball is about stats. The game sounds fresh, and real, when stats are referenced throughout the broadcast. Personally, I don't really care if Player X spent his summers swinging a bat in a swimming pool (just an example). Stuff like that will be repeated over and over. I usually wind up shutting down the color guys and just listening to PbP during the game. C

I dont know how many linbes of commentary was in previous Shows but the over 15,000 added just in 17 makes me think its going to be tough to hear repeats in the same game, at least I hope so.

as for the Shows competition I feel like they do have some really formidable competion, just not from where you would normally expect it. Namely Madde, NBA2K, CoD, Battlefield, GTA, Overwatch and a few others.

[Jon Arbuckle]

Quote: Originally Posted by Caulfield

I dont know how many linbes of commentary was in previous Shows but the over 15,000 added just in 17 makes me think its going to be tough to hear repeats in the same game, at least I hope so. as for the Shows competition I feel like they do have some really formidable competion, just not from where you would normally expect it. Namely Madde, NBA2K, CoD, Battlefield, GTA, Overwatch and a few others.

NBA2k gets a ton of commentary love but I was already hearing repeated anecdotes after an hour or two of play. It sounds great and natural but I'd still mute it if I played that game more than casually. I'd preferably have all anecdotes and jokey back and forth removed and focus exclusively on short and sweet PBP, stats and limited situational analysis. I'd also limit the number of different lines and instead record as many takes as possible of each line reading with an emphasis on bringing varying levels of emotion/interest into the booth just as happens in real life from game to game. Opening day announcing ≠ dog days of summer announcing ≠ WS game 7 announcing.

And you're right about where The Show's competition lies. Unfortunately, I think that mostly leads to competition over casual gamers with a focus on superficial elements such as graphics, presentation and, even worse, coming up with ways to make the game as easy and quick to play as possible. For example, your average casual baseball gamer isn't going to care that he couldn't hit Texas leaguers (loved seeing them in one of the streams btw) but the quick counts and fast play options already introduced are sure to make them happy and this year's retro mode gameplay is tailor made for them.

[MetsFan16]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jon Arbuckle

NBA2k gets a ton of commentary love but I was already hearing repeated anecdotes after an hour or two of play. It sounds great and natural but I'd still mute it if I played that game more than casually. I'd preferably have all anecdotes and jokey back and forth removed and focus exclusively on short and sweet PBP, stats and limited situational analysis. I'd also limit the number of different lines and instead record as many takes as possible of each line reading with an emphasis on bringing varying levels of emotion/interest into the booth just as happens in real life from game to game. Opening day announcing ≠ dog days of summer announcing ≠ WS game 7 announcing. And you're right about where The Show's competition lies. Unfortunately, I think that mostly leads to competition over casual gamers with a focus on superficial elements such as graphics, presentation and, even worse, coming up with ways to make the game as easy and quick to play as possible. For example, your average casual baseball gamer isn't going to care that he couldn't hit Texas leaguers (loved seeing them in one of the streams btw) but the quick counts and fast play options already introduced are sure to make them happy and this year's retro mode gameplay is tailor made for them.

You're right about this. As you can see from the Franchise Video posted today, it's all about how to get through a season faster. Other sports games offer 81 or 16 games per season! Fans of other sports see 162 and almost wet themselves. That's why RTTS and DD are the most popular modes.

That leaves those who play most if not all 162 wishing for more immersive features (which I'm sure they will announce later this week).

However, with these new additions to make seasons go by faster, more people buy the game because the task isn't as daunting, more copies sold, more resources for next years cycle.

[knich]

Quote: Originally Posted by Steve_SDS

Are you kidding me? That horse is a liquid now. You guys have beaten it so hard and for so long that there are no solids left. Believe me, we're well aware of your issue with Matt. The more you continue to pound on it isn't going to make a difference. We're doing our best to address it but even with thousands of new Vasgersian lines, this year was primarily about replacing 10 years of color commentary. No small feat. Our entire team is only about a quarter the size of 2Ks. There's only so much we can do in a year. We busted our butts this year to get in all that we could. I'm sure we set a single year record for time in the recording studio for the 15 years I've been working on this game. But by all means, continue to beat this horse. You're only going to splatter yourself with horse matter.

I did not know that. Amazing work given your size. You have my ok to hire more people.

Quote: Originally Posted by Steve_SDS

For the record, I wasn't talking specifically about you but OS in general. Sorry if it came off that way since I was responding to your post. We don't care that we don't have any competition currently. We still strive every year to make the best baseball game ever. We put our all into it. We appreciate that you guys are the hardcore fans and we all want to make the best game possible for you guys. Kirby along with Compton have only had a year and a half on The Show handling play by play and color commentary full time to make their mark on it. Give them some time. They have big plans for it but it's all not going to happen at once. ETA: And by all means, keep the feedback coming. You guys have some great ideas. You all are passionate fans. We like that we have a partnership with the community and that you guys continue to push us to make the best baseball game we can.

You can definitely learn a lot from 2k12 presentation and broadcast. I hope you have a look.

Here's random sample: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ecTkbyTX3w.

The in play camera and cut scenes are also fantastic.

[kaptainkarl76]

If 15000 lines are added..how many are removed?

[Caulfield]

Quote: Originally Posted by kaptainkarl76

If 15000 lines are added..how many are removed?

With all of Karros' and Psychos gone, I bet at least 80% if not all of Mattys are gone as well.