Myleague PC/old gen basically unplayable?

[SacharNabai]

I was playing 2k24 on PC and noticed that the other team always switches everything and never sends double teams. so... uhm you just get your best inside scorer on their shortest player and score 95% of the time... which is why you can't just switch everything and never send help. but if I don't punish it the game suddenly becomes super difficult since they are switching everything and never sending help! you feel like an absolute idiot if you don't, but it's boring and feels like cheating if you do! so I boot up 2k22 and guess what? it's the exact same problem! like what am I supposed to do? it's unplayable. how did I ever play this? did I not notice them running the exact same insane defense every time? Am I missing something? im on superstar but is there some slider to tell the AI to like actually play basketball?

[vetmin]

This can be addressed to some extent if you are on PC, as there are many hidden variables in the game, and coaches have hidden variables that affect double teams, etc. See this thread: https://forums.nba-live.com/viewtopi...f=279&t=115323. But even factoring stuff like that in, I think most people simply find new-gen's (or at least 2K25's) AI superior.

It ultimately comes down to how you play 2K and what you value in it. Personally I am still on 2K23 old-gen (PC), and I find 2K25 inferior in just about every respect that matters to my 2K experience. Not surprisingly, my playstyle is completely different than yours (typically I position-lock to the point guard, let the coaching AI call the plays, then I operate within the logic of the play or freelance; it's not really possible for me to spam anything).

That said, for every 2K (including 25) there are always threads here about this or that game mechanic you can freely abuse or exploit in ways that would never happen in an actual NBA game. There's always been an unrealistic meta of some sort, in other words, which is always a thorn in the side of certain types of 2K gamers, i.e., those who want a sim-style experience but still have that super-comp gamer mindset of not being able to resist whatever strategy is optimal for winning within the video game. I'm not that type of gamer, but if I were then I imagine I'd prefer whatever game has the fewest unrealistic exploits (probably 2K25) or whatever game's exploits are least annoying to me personally (for instance, some people still find 2K11 gameplay the most solid even though it allows for some pretty egregious exploits).

[SacharNabai]

but it's not an "exploit", if a team did this is real life the response would be exactly what im doing. it's basketball. what should I even be doing? how do you run an offense if they switch everything and never double team/trap? I rarely ever get any shooters open but constantly have massive matchup advantages... which is exactly what happens in real life. so then you have to trap or double or help or do something to compensate for that. that isnt some high level simulation stuff that is basic basketball. I literally dont understand how im even supposed to play the game anymore it just seems broken?

even the way you play, if Im the PG and they switch their slow center onto me with a full shot clock then im going out of the play and just attacking the mismatch... that's very basic basketball... otherwise switching has almost zero downsides and massive positives. you must be playing on a difficulty level waaaaay below your actual skill since you are letting them get away with so much. it's like they are constantly bluffing and you never call it.

thanks for the link I will look into it. seems complicated but potentially literally what im looking for. absolutely insane you gotta use a cheat engine to get the AI to actually play basketball. switching shouldve never been introduced since they dont know how to actually do it

sorry if I came across combative it's just been a very frustrating and disappointing experience trying to get back into playing 2k

[vetmin]

Quote: Originally Posted by SacharNabai

but it's not an "exploit", if a team did this is real life the response would be exactly what im doing.

I just meant that you're exploiting what you've identified as a dysfunctional part of the AI, since to me it sounded like you recognized the reluctance on the CPU's part to call for doubles and were consequently hunting for mismatches (i.e., exploiting your real-life knowledge that the video game players will be too stupid to double in a situation where real-life players would).

But...

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how do you run an offense if they switch everything and never double team/trap? I rarely ever get any shooters open but constantly have massive matchup advantages [...] even the way you play, if Im the PG and they switch their slow center onto me with a full shot clock then im going out of the play and just attacking the mismatch... that's very basic basketball... otherwise switching has almost zero downsides and massive positives. you must be playing on a difficulty level waaaaay below your actual skill since you are letting them get away with so much. it's like they are constantly bluffing and you never call it.

...it sounds like you're not manually hunting for mismatches, but rather they just constantly fall into your lap for no reason at all? That would indeed be an issue but it's just not my experience, at least in the halfcourt. It's been awhile since I played 2K22, and I have barely played 2K24, but on 2K23 I just don't experience constant pointless switching from the CPU. Not with my player and not with my CPU teammates. I do play using my gameplay mod,*** but I don't remember switching issues from prior to then either. I even just played a few minutes to test (default roster Warriors v. Celtics, locked to Curry) and despite the AI calling several high PNRs for me, I never got a switch, nor did I see any switches on my teammates. If anything I feel like the CPU tends to stay a bit too attached.

Where 2K notoriously struggles with player matchups is of course in transition, such that even good teams in the game feel like IRL bad transition defense teams. It's probably better in 2K25 (can't remember; I uninstalled it because it was just dead weight on my hard drive), but still with room for improvement. One of the oldest MyLEAGUE/MLO 'house rules' in the book is after a 'normal' rebound you gotta take a breath and walk the ball up for a halfcourt possession, not get the ball out in transition by turbo'ing / ping-pong-passing it up like a team full of Magic Johnsons after every rebound.

Not saying you're doing that necessarily, but that's the one spot in the game where I feel like I could unrealistically often take advantage of dumb mismatches if my life depended on winning.

So, in short, I've never experienced the sort of overswitching that you are experiencing, though the lack of double teams is definitely an issue by default, as are plenty of other aspects of defense, most of which people are still complaining about re: 2K25, I think (help D, defenders going under on good shooters, the usual suspects).

***NOTE: Despite the name of my gameplay mod, it's not literally 2K24 gameplay on 2K23; what I did was transplant certain 2K24 files to 2K23, which improves the 2K23 gameplay and fixes a playcalling bug, but lots of additional files / variables affect gameplay, so in reality 2K23 with this mod just has its own flavor of gameplay that is different than both default 2K23 and default 2K24.

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thanks for the link I will look into it. seems complicated but potentially literally what im looking for. absolutely insane you gotta use a cheat engine to get the AI to actually play basketball. switching shouldve never been introduced since they dont know how to actually do it

Happy to help, and while I don't totally share your experience of the gameplay, I do share your sentiment of "absolutely insane you gotta use a cheat engine to [INSERT A BILLION OTHER THINGS]". That's why I find 2K basically unplayable on console; there's too much stuff you need to change or be in control of that 2K walls you off from.

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sorry if I came across combative it's just been a very frustrating and disappointing experience trying to get back into playing 2k

No worries!

[SacharNabai]

I stopped playing 23 cus they never switch. they always over defend the ball handler, leaving any screener to either roll into traffic... or just stay and be wide open. every single time. even if the screener is steph curry. so either it feels like you are cheating or you cant punish the insane way they defend. cus swarming the ballhandler is very very very good if you just pretend the roller/popper doesnt exist.

or is it just broken when I play it? im starting to feel like 2k just hates me.

all I want is for them to do different things, so you gotta read and react.. the fun part of a game... but if they always do the same thing...

I dont allow myself to trade for unprotected picks, I dont sign free agents my team wouldnt be favorites for in real life etc etc etc I hate when people use exploits and then complain that the game suddenly became boring yeah I wonder why. but what am I supposed to do here? im not allowed to set screens with anyone who can shoot? like thats a MAJOR part of modern basketball... or in 22 if they switch trae young on jokic im not allowed to post him up? yeah I think my 2k playing days are over...

[vetmin]

Quote: Originally Posted by SacharNabai

I stopped playing 23 cus they never switch. they always over defend the ball handler, leaving any screener to either roll into traffic... or just stay and be wide open. every single time. even if the screener is steph curry. so either it feels like you are cheating or you cant punish the insane way they defend. cus swarming the ballhandler is very very very good if you just pretend the roller/popper doesnt exist. [...] but what am I supposed to do here? im not allowed to set screens with anyone who can shoot? like thats a MAJOR part of modern basketball...

It hasn't been that dysfunctional for me in 2K23, but I remember feeling like that in 2K20, and the solution then was the same as what it is now for these sorts of shortcomings: mitigate the effects with sliders. That's like half of what drives all of the slider tweaking in the sliders sub-forum; it's a lot of just people finding slider- (and badge-)based ways to eliminate weak spots in the AI (and to weaken OP aspects of the CPU). For PNR defense, some obvious things to do would be lower USER pass accuracy and increase CPU hands (so make it harder for clean passes to get through) and increase CPU blocking (so they can recover better on the roller); you could also universally buff certain badges like Chase Down Artist and Pick Dodger and/or nerf others like Brick Wall. The game is never perfect out of the box; it takes tweaking.

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all I want is for them to do different things, so you gotta read and react.. the fun part of a game... but if they always do the same thing...

The latest 2K is usually the best for CPU gameplanning, but they all leave a lot to be desired. I'm not trying to shill for 2K but I think basketball is just a hard sport to simulate in that regard. It's not for lack of trying, as—to their credit—they do seem to invest meaningful resources each year in improving this stuff.

I've never encountered a 2K that I couldn't slider / roster-edit my way into finding a consistently enjoyable virtual hoops experience, but again there are so many variables affecting one's 2K experience (from playstyle and skill level / skillset, to even what kinds of teams you play with; for instance, maybe certain issues arise when controlling a team with a dominant playmaking big like Jokic, but I'd have no idea because I literally never play with those sorts of teams).

[SacharNabai]

I went into 2k23 and defaulted all my sliders (that I got from THIS forum) and put it on superstar (which I think the custom was based on but maybe not). booted up the default play now warriors vs knicks... and they actually play defense now... they actually dont always double the ball handler in pick and roll. what the... did the sliders somehow break the AI!? I tried it yesterday with my normal sliders and yeah they never defended the screener. not sure how any slider would make it seem smart to leave curry open on catch and shoot threes every time so the sliders mustve screwed up the defense AI somehow. but now sometimes they switch, sometimes they trap, sometimes they rotate. they always trapped before, maybe sometimes a half assed trap with a late rotation but that still left the screener wide open. now when I tested I only got a couple of open shots but mostly they defended it well!

I started with 2k24 and hated it. remembered that 23 didnt work so went to 22 and hated it. tried fifa 23 but omg if you think simulating basketball is difficult imagine EA sports half assing a simulation of a sport with 11 vs 11! so now it's back to 2k23 I guess lol thanks for the feedback forcing me to double check and try stuff, it seems to have worked out in the end