Teaira McCowan is the poster child for the oldest legacy issue in videogames

[Kaanyr Vhok]

The legacy issue is that bigs rebound better in the game than they do in real life. There are several issues that cause this. The rebound ratings do not respect their position on the court. Slashers are lumped with three point shooters, stretch bigs are lumped with dunker spot bigs. A good rebounding guard will always have worse rebound ratings than a mediocre rebounding dunker spot. In the game, they get less rebounds based on their position on the floor and inferior ratings.

Another issue is the lack of long rebounds. There is a lack of bad shot clanks too. We generally play on Allstar to Hof where the CPU shoots too well. If there are any sliders that will increase the bad shots without increasing bad shooting I'm all ears. In relation to this there is still a lack of tipped out rebound animations. There are far more than there use to be. This is definitely improved but its not enough to fix the legacy issue.

There is a third reason where Teaira McCowan is the queen. They gave her a 98 stamina.



Whoever pressed enter on that ratings update should be ashamed of themselves. She is 6'7 240 pounds and she has never averaged more than 26 minutes. She always plays the entire first half in 10 minn qtr games. If she isn't in foul trouble and the game is close she will play the entire game. I played her twice and it was 25 rebounds in the first game and 13 in the second. She averaged 8.1 rebounds in real life last season sooooo



Congrats Ms. McCowan you are the new poster child for what might be the greatest legacy bug in videogame history.

[Real2KInsider]

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The legacy issue is that bigs rebound better in the game than they do in real life. There are several issues that cause this. The rebound ratings do not respect their position on the court. Slashers are lumped with three point shooters, stretch bigs are lumped with dunker spot bigs. A good rebounding guard will always have worse rebound ratings than a mediocre rebounding dunker spot. In the game, they get less rebounds based on their position on the floor and inferior ratings.

I don't follow what the problem is.

Yes, centers grab more rebounds given their proximity to the rim.

Lower rebound ratings for non-bigs means you can't just put your SG at Center and get the same results (because you wouldn't IRL).

In the case of Stretch Bigs, most of them are occupying that space because they are already sub-par rebounders to begin with (Jaren Jackson Jr, Kristaps Porzingis, etc).

Joel Embiid (70 ORB rating to 6.8 ORB%, which is 59 by scale) stands as a major example where 2K inflates his ORB rating to compensate for that discrepancy. Something they also did with Dirk Nowitzki over the years.

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There is a third reason where Teaira McCowan is the queen. They gave her a 98 stamina. Whoever pressed enter on that ratings update should be ashamed of themselves. She is 6'7 240 pounds and she has never averaged more than 26 minutes. She always plays the entire first half in 10 minn qtr games. If she isn't in foul trouble and the game is close she will play the entire game. I played her twice and it was 25 rebounds in the first game and 13 in the second. She averaged 8.1 rebounds in real life last season sooooo Congrats Ms. McCowan you are the new poster child for what might be the greatest legacy bug in videogame history.

McCowan is the WNBA's All-Time leader in Rebound rate and ORB rate. For her career she's averaged 13 per 36, and 18 per 100 poss. Her having 98 Stamina is a completely separate issue. Unless you are trying to say bigs have too high stamina, though I don't think you are.

What IS the legacy bug/issue? Brevity is the soul of wit.

[Kaanyr Vhok]

The legacy bug is that since at least 2k11 when the defense improved, bigs rebounded better in games than they do in real life and guards and forwards typically rebounded worse. I'm not talking about the simulation engine I'm talking in actual games played.

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Lower rebound ratings for non-bigs means you can't just put your SG at Center and get the same results (because you wouldn't IRL).

Nahh that won't happen. Lets say someone puts an elite rebounding SG at Center like Josh Hart... Josh Hart only has 57/81 rebound ratings in the game. He is never going to come close to averaging 9.6 rebounds in games like he did in real life or 8.3 in the previous season without a major boost in his ratings and probably a reduction in the the ratings of the better rebounders. You watch the Knicks. Does he play small ball 5 in real life or is he getting those rebounds from the perimeter? I would guess both. In Portland he averaged 8 playing 2-4. He would never come close to that in previous 2ks.

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In the case of Stretch Bigs, most of them are occupying that space because they are already sub-par rebounders to begin with (Jaren Jackson Jr, Kristaps Porzingis, etc).

Ja Morant's rebound ratings are 37/56 he averages 4.1 rebounds
Jaren Jackson's rebound ratings are 47/65 he averages 5.6 rebounds
what did I say?

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In the game, they get less rebounds based on their position on the floor and inferior ratings.

I haven't played much of 2k25 but in the past a player like Morant would struggle to get 4 and Jackson is outperforming 6.

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McCowan is the WNBA's All-Time leader in Rebound rate and ORB rate. For her career she's averaged 13 per 36, and 18 per 100 poss. Her having 98 Stamina is a completely separate issue. Unless you are trying to say bigs have too high stamina, though I don't think you are.

Yes Stamina has a lot to do with it but if she is getting 25 rebounds in one game and 13 in the next its not just stamina. I'll drop her stamina and hustle then test it but I doubt it will swing to an average of 8 or 9. Also I remember the position average for Centers was in the 90s so yes I am definitely saying they have too much stamina in the WNBA.

[Real2KInsider]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kaanyr Vhok

I'm not talking about the simulation engine I'm talking in actual games played.

As am I.

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Nahh that won't happen. Lets say someone puts an elite rebounding SG at Center like Josh Hart... Josh Hart only has 57/81 rebound ratings in the game. He is never going to come close to averaging 9.6 rebounds in games like he did in real life or 8.3 in the previous season without a major boost in his ratings and probably a reduction in the the ratings of the better rebounders.

Hart has a significant rebounding edge on his peers (PFs and SFs) which means he is favored in those rebound battles, thus generating an edge for his team on the boards.

He would not be favored in rebound battles with centers (which would reduce his rebound rates). The idea of Hart going toe-to-toe with Steven Adams on a regular basis is comedy.

There are also many more detailed rebound stats available (Contested Rebounds, Self-Shot ORBs) that are more illustrative to rebounding "ability" than raw rebound numbers. Like when OKC as a team was letting Russell Westbrook pad his rebound totals in his Triple Double / "MVP" season with low value boards.

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You watch the Knicks. Does he play small ball 5 in real life or is he getting those rebounds from the perimeter? I would guess both.

Josh Hart NEVER plays small-ball five.
https://www.basketball-reference.com...1/lineups/2025

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Ja Morant's rebound ratings are 37/56 he averages 4.1 rebounds Jaren Jackson's rebound ratings are 47/65 he averages 5.6 rebounds what did I say?

You'll have a better time if you ditch the minutes based stat that also ignores Pace.

Ja Morant
2.7 ORB% = 38
11.8 DRB% = 54

Jaren Jackson
4.4 ORB% = 47
15.5 DRB% = 64

Josh Hart
6.4 ORB% = 57
22.6 DRB% = 81

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I haven't played much of 2k25 but in the past a player like Morant would struggle to get 4 and Jackson is outperforming 6.

But that's just the nature of 2K, Defensive Rebounds will ALWAYS be higher because more possessions end in shots than IRL where there are many more unforced Turnovers. That isn't something you appear to have factored in when you're referencing per game stats.

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Yes Stamina has a lot to do with it but if she is getting 25 rebounds in one game and 13 in the next its not just stamina.

13 isn't even an outlier based on production rates. It is a below average result if she is playing the entire game.

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I'll drop her stamina and hustle then test it but I doubt it will swing to an average of 8 or 9. Also I remember the position average for Centers was in the 90s so yes I am definitely saying they have too much stamina in the WNBA.

I have never looked at the WNBA Roster so I can't say what the attributes looks like leaguewide. Going by NBA scale she'd be about 80-85, though that doesn't factor that the WNBA game is 8 minutes shorter. 26 MPG is 54% of 48 and 65% of 40.

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Congrats Ms. McCowan you are the new poster child for what might be the greatest legacy bug in videogame history.

All-in-all this was extreme hyperbole on multiple fronts. Video game history???????

[TarHeelPhenom]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kaanyr Vhok

The legacy issue is that bigs rebound better in the game than they do in real life. There are several issues that cause this. The rebound ratings do not respect their position on the court. Slashers are lumped with three point shooters, stretch bigs are lumped with dunker spot bigs. A good rebounding guard will always have worse rebound ratings than a mediocre rebounding dunker spot. In the game, they get less rebounds based on their position on the floor and inferior ratings. Another issue is the lack of long rebounds. There is a lack of bad shot clanks too. We generally play on Allstar to Hof where the CPU shoots too well. If there are any sliders that will increase the bad shots without increasing bad shooting I'm all ears. In relation to this there is still a lack of tipped out rebound animations. There are far more than there use to be. This is definitely improved but its not enough to fix the legacy issue. There is a third reason where Teaira McCowan is the queen. They gave her a 98 stamina. Whoever pressed enter on that ratings update should be ashamed of themselves. She is 6'7 240 pounds and she has never averaged more than 26 minutes. She always plays the entire first half in 10 minn qtr games. If she isn't in foul trouble and the game is close she will play the entire game. I played her twice and it was 25 rebounds in the first game and 13 in the second. She averaged 8.1 rebounds in real life last season sooooo Congrats Ms. McCowan you are the new poster child for what might be the greatest legacy bug in videogame history.

I say this with all sincerity...

2k has the one thing that I wish all sports games had, especially football games, and that's a global editor with the ability to edit every single thing that matters as far as players go. You can globally edit every single player in the game past and present, and every attribute, tendency, badge, and it would take all of about 10 seconds. I say this to say, if Stamina needs to be tweaked, lower it. Go as deep or as shallow as you like.

[blashinsky]

Lower rebounding, vertical and hustle to 0 for both user and cpu and you get more variety in rebounding.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Quote: Originally Posted by TarHeelPhenom

I say this with all sincerity... 2k has the one thing that I wish all sports games had, especially football games, and that's a global editor with the ability to edit every single thing that matters as far as players go. You can globally edit every single player in the game past and present, and every attribute, tendency, badge, and it would take all of about 10 seconds. I say this to say, if Stamina needs to be tweaked, lower it. Go as deep or as shallow as you like.

I agree. That is why I'm testing the WNBA first. Less edits.

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Quote: Originally Posted by Real2KInsider

As am I. But that's just the nature of 2K, Defensive Rebounds will ALWAYS be higher because more possessions end in shots than IRL where there are many more unforced Turnovers. That isn't something you appear to have factored in when you're referencing per game stats.

I'm working on it with sliders that increase turnovers. That said I never really considered the connection because guards also underperform

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I have never looked at the WNBA Roster so I can't say what the attributes looks like leaguewide. Going by NBA scale she'd be about 80-85, though that doesn't factor that the WNBA game is 8 minutes shorter. 26 MPG is 54% of 48 and 65% of 40.

She is 90/81 with a 98 stamina. The stamina is the big bugaloo. I played her with a 79 and she only had 5 but she also took her 12th,13th,14th,15th and 16th three pointer of her career. Does fatigue increase 3 point chucks? I reduced her three point tendencies and made high post her third priority. She then grabbed 17 and 12 rebounds while taking just 1 three in two games. I played Britney Griner and while her minutes are more realistic she averaged 9 boards which is career highish. Atlanta's other bigs were above their averages. I played Chicago 3 times and Angel Reece's lack of minutes combined with playing next to Cardoso and her real life insane rebound averages makes her the exception but Cardoso greatly outperforms her real rebound numbers and so did Elizabeth Williams off the bench.

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All-in-all this was extreme hyperbole on multiple fronts. Video game history???????

Its hard to think of anything that competes with it. Madden's lack of long snapper ratings and dline stunts are older but not as bad. Guards have arguably always underperformed in rebounding and bigs have over performed since maybe 2k11. I feel like I am guaranteed that bigs will always have inflated value for the same reason in the next 10 NBA 2k games. Well, maybe new reasons when Teaira McCowan has prime Wilt Chamberlain stamina.