Question for scea about clutch

[tessl]

Would you please explain exactly how clutch works, when it is activated and what impact it has.

Thank you.

[swaldo]

Just for info, here is the links to the tests I have conducted regarding clutch ratings:

http://www.operationsports.com/forums/scea-sports-mlb/313311-comeback-ai-thread-7.html#post2039472238

http://www.operationsports.com/forums/scea-sports-mlb/313311-comeback-ai-thread-8.html#post2039476013

[moemoe24]

Just guessing here, but I would think that clutch kicks in situations like....men on 2nd and 3rd and 2 outs. A player with a higher clutch rating would be more likely to get a hit.

Another example may be your closer coming in with a man in scoring position. If his clutch is high he will get out of the jam easier than a pitcher with a low clutch rating.

I know first hand that clutch effects your closers. I use Lindstrom from the Marlins. He blew 3 saves in 3 games. I thought that was weird so I checked his ratings. Sure enough, his clutch rating was in the 60's. I moved it up to 80 and he hasn't blown one since.

That's my thought on clutch anyway. It may be something totally different.

[Revolution42]

I would think that your analogy is accurate....situations occur when a clutch performance is required, player with the higher clutch attribute rating will have a better chance of making the big play....key hit....perfect pitch etc etc...sounds about right I would think.

[tessl]

Quote: Originally Posted by moemoe24

Just guessing here, but I would think that clutch kicks in situations like....men on 2nd and 3rd and 2 outs. A player with a higher clutch rating would be more likely to get a hit. Another example may be your closer coming in with a man in scoring position. If his clutch is high he will get out of the jam easier than a pitcher with a low clutch rating. I know first hand that clutch effects your closers. I use Lindstrom from the Marlins. He blew 3 saves in 3 games. I thought that was weird so I checked his ratings. Sure enough, his clutch rating was in the 60's. I moved it up to 80 and he hasn't blown one since. That's my thought on clutch anyway. It may be something totally different.

I've got a general idea of what it is but I'd like to know the exact details so I know how the game works. I suspect is plays a far greater role than many people are aware of and is distorting the statistics.

One of the biggest home runs in baseball history was hit by Bill Mazeroski and he was never really a "clutch" hitter. Never hit 20 home runs in a year in 17 MLB seasons, never had 100 rbi. On the other hand one of the great clutch hitters, McCovey made an out with the world series on the line.

I'd like to get rid of it completely but short of that I'd like to know exactly how it works.

[Millennium]

Quote: Originally Posted by alstl

I've got a general idea of what it is but I'd like to know the exact details so I know how the game works. I suspect is plays a far greater role than many people are aware of and is distorting the statistics. One of the biggest home runs in baseball history was hit by Bill Mazeroski and he was never really a "clutch" hitter. Never hit 20 home runs in a year in 17 MLB seasons, never had 100 rbi. On the other hand one of the great clutch hitters, McCovey made an out with the world series on the line. I'd like to get rid of it completely but short of that I'd like to know exactly how it works.

Get rid of it completely? So, you don't want any difference between Jeter and Robinson Cano in the bottom of the 9th, 2 outs and the winning run on 2nd?

[Melkro]

Quote: Originally Posted by Millennium

Get rid of it completely? So, you don't want any difference between Jeter and Robinson Cano in the bottom of the 9th, 2 outs and the winning run on 2nd?

How many times does it have to be said...clutch hitting is an illusion. It has been statistically proven as such many times. Jeter (for as "clutch" as people claim he is) has a lower career average in the playoffs (the ultimate clutch situation) then he does in his regular season career. he is preceived as being a good "clutch" performer because he is a good performer in all situations. In Jeter's case the illusion is only made worse by the fact that he plays in New York AND has been to the playoffs enough that random chance predicts he should have several key hits in his postseason career. To answer your question yes I would certainly take Jeter over Cano in that situation, but only because Jeter is a better hitter than Cano in all situations.

I'm with the OP in that I think clutch needs to be taken out of the game. There is no proof beyond aligory that it exists and stats show it doesn't, so why does the most realistic baseball game of all time include it? At the very least allowing users to turn it off would be nice.

http://www.geocities.com/cyrilmorong...merClutch2.htm

http://www.baseball1.com/bb-data/gra...ullclutch.html

"The correlation between past and current clutch performance is .01, with
a standard deviation of .07. In other words, there isn't a significant
ability in clutch hitting; if there were, the same players would be good
clutch hitters every year."


Start your reading there

[SoxFan01605]

^^^how did I know the Bill James disciples would come out in full force on this.

Jokes aside, ratings like "clutch" can be good for videogames because they allow for a bit of variance in performance. Meaning a good clutch rating for a lower skilled player can give him a better chance of performing in bigger situations if he's been known historically to come up a bit bigger than his skill level suggests normally.

The trouble with the notion of zero clutch (in a videogame), is that it tries to paint baseball as a black and white game of statistical definites. That is fine for analyzing the real game, because it's impossible to truly eliminate the psychological and basic human element from the game in real life (it's always there, despite whatever statistical model you base your analysis on). So analyzing what you can purely on a solid statistical base makes pefect sense and should be better embraced.

In a videogame, you are starting from black and white and essentially have to program variance or the "human" element. It's obviously never going to be perfect and will have it's own set of hiccups, but I'd rather have an imperfect attempt at inperfection (which only enhances realism if done well) over a model free from any deviation whatsoever.

I would agree with the notion it potentially needs to be tweaked or toned down perhaps (depending on just what exactly it does. Some assume more simply because of mere verbiage...lol...much like the great "comeback AI" beliefs of some).

Clutch itself isn't a myth (even the most diehard disciples should know that), the "myth" is the notion that a given player is more "clutch" than his skill level would suggest in certain situations over a large sample.

Also, there are things statistic can't yet fully evaluate because we don't know enough to isolate certain variables (Stress level, peak, mental state, etc.). These could very well support the "myth" that some players are better tuned to perform above their peak in given situations. It would still be more anamoly than certainty (meaning it would not be as simple as player "A" is more/less clutch than "B". Over the long haul skill would still be more of the determining factor), but there is still much unknown in the debate...despite what some might tell you.