There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

[DarkFudge]

After closely watching the playoffs these past weeks with all the deep shots downfield (and midfield) it became even more apparent that MADDEN, over the past several years has something or several things out of whack in the way it depicts the mid to deep passing game.

Tell me what you think...because I think I have narrowed down the culprits but would love some other perspectives from you guys.


-Defensive backs and LBs are just too magnetically and unrealistically capable of sticking with Recievers stride for stride.

-The passing physics and trajectories dont yield realistic results. Deep Balls always seem to be underthrown yielding reciever(and ball hawking secondary) to just stop, turn around and do a pop tart jump animation for the ball.

-there's never any fight or bobble or extra physics involved in the reception. Its a very simplistic trigger of either a receiver catch/drop or a defender bat/pick. No other possible dynamic variations inbetween. (Madden designers spent so much time trying to develop a more interactive and dynamic running game over the years with added abilities to juke, truck, stifff arm, break tackles, even stumble but yet the passing game has felt so unispired and lacking of variety like bobbles, more variety and interaction between WR and defender)


-because there's no physics imposed, DBs can and will just warp in front of a WR to distrupt a pass if the game engine decides that the player ratings warrant it

- No way to really control the direction and vicinity of a thrown pass other than hitting the reciever button. Pushing the directional stick and controlling Loft isnt nearly as dynamic and immersive as in older generations of the game and many of the times will wind up right in a defenders scripted hands when you werent even aiming it in that vicinity. Almost as if the engine took over again to satisfy a Defensive Player Rating


-The field is either to small or the players are slightly too large. Either way these proportions and balance seem to yield a more congested looking field with less spacing for bad passes to drop in uncaught.


I dunno, I've just been watching alot of Victor Cruz's receptions and how he can dynamically break his stride and break free off a route, come back, seperate and make a variety of basket style catches and bobble and secure the ball as he's falling and realize that Madden totally lacks this level of excitement and immersion in its passing game.

I then loaded up NCAA 04 and 06 and could see a huge difference in the wide open feel of the passing game and the players in the secondary and how much spacing there is to have the ability to drop some passes in without having the defenders all over your reciever like piranahs on every throw.

Also if you watch many of these NFL games....a safety just doesnt have as much time as it has in Madden to get to the play and break up every deep pass the way they effectively do in these video games. Im not sure if thats a result of a field to narrow, players moving too fast and/or covering too much ground, or if its the slow lofty velocity of deep passes.


What are your thoughts on all this?

[Shroom]

I could not agree more. The passing game in madden seems so bland, and I think that it is one of the things that EA really needs to revamp next year. As you said, there is no variety in the catches and interactions between the defensive backs and receivers. I would love to see animations that allow the receiver and Db to fight for the ball, bobble it, etc. The whole system is very disappointing.

[xblake16x]

I don't remember who said this but it has stuck with me.

We shoud be able to differentiate our throws using the the shoulder buttons. I don't know what 4 (or more, depending on the pressure sensitivity of the buttons) different throws would be but each should be used in certain situations. Each would have a velocity and arc unique to its own.

Need to fit it in between the safety and linebackers? There is a throw for that.

High to where only your receiver can get it?

Towards a receiver but out of bounds/way over throw or underthrow...

[SageInfinite]

Totally agree, the passing game is pretty sad. Also the catch animations need a complete overhaul. Most of them are terrible where the receiver slides/warps to make the catch instead of catching it in his stride.

Also as mentioned, the vertical game is non-existent. Receiver rarely go up to make big time grabs. The route running isn't bad, but when db's don't have animations and just slide and warp and mirror receivers it makes the decent route running animations pointless, because the db's don't simulate covering a route, like the receivers do running it.

Also the lack of outside rush an the abundance of inside rush doesn't make for a realistic pocket to throw from.

[N51_rob]

I agree there is something not right with the passing game. It seems like there are a lot of routes, that are useless in the game, because a.)the receivers run terrible routes, b.) the DBs never break on a route or "blow" a coverage (whats the point of having man and zone ratings?)instead they just mirror the receiver c.) the routes take way to long to develop in relations to the rest of the play. Sluggos are useless, most play action is useless, if your opponent sends a blitz. The passing game lacks an organic feel to it. What you saw in the conference championships in the passing game, isn't what you see if you play Madden.

[sportyguyfl31]

I was talking about this with a fellow online league member a couple of weeks ago.

I was observing the passing stats and even the very best QBs were putting up astronomical INT #'s.

Sure..people were throwing up good TD and yardage numbers with the Brees, Rivers, Mannings, Brady's of the world, but also putting up 20+ INTs.

I am convinced that, being conservative, at least half the INTs thrown by people, are the fault of the user, and the other half is simply because the game will not allow you to make certain types of throws.

I know how to read coverages, but in this game, you cannot always trust your eyes. A guy can look open and a defender can make a play that he has no business making, for a variety of reasons.

Most of us pass the ball the exact same way: Slants, Curls, Ins Drags, Streak, and a occasional Post Route....maybe a Corner route if you get a good AI day.

There are a whole slew of pass plays that I never call, or have to hot route to simpler routes, just to get them to work.

We should have the freedom to throw every route the game gives us, by now.

[baller7345]

Quote: Originally Posted by N51_rob

Sluggos are useless, most play action is useless, if your opponent sends a blitz.

Sluggos are very useful. Proof in the form of this:

http://www.madden-school.com/forum/m...tml#post169132

[carnalnirvana]

i agree with TC, about the passing game not being varied enough and imo its the speed ratings and the cpu ability to knock passes down with amazing accuracy for the user and cpu....

look at vernon davis two TD catches today you can see he is clearly faster than and safety or LB the giants had but in madden the ratings dont show this properly, he should be rated at least 10 speed points faster than them imo but in madden he may be 2-3pts faster

i know seperation isn't only about speed but if guys are faster changes your play calling, there is no reason to ever play zone in madden because any DB can cover any WR

thats why defenders have soo much range especially safeties, they all are as fast as ed reed making the field seem small.

if madden had a global ratings editor like nba live i would immediately take 12 speed points from everyone then manually boost the maybe 10 players with true 90+ speed

you wanna see awareness truly matter make players slower so they have to anticipate instead of getting speed boosts after the ball is thrown

i understand why the game is soooo poorly designed = ONLINE PLAY

most online/casual gamers wont know how counter a player like V Davis, especially with their nano blitz, blitz with 7 players per play stupidity so sim ballers get stuck with LB who must perform/cover like PRIMETIME to bail them out..