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Madden 2010 News Post

WOW! What a way to end a half!!!!

Well Madden (and NFL) fans, as promised, we’re bringing you a sneak peek at Madden NFL 10 by releasing a feature that you’ll see in this year’s game! Remember, it’s only a mere 6½ months away!

We have a big goal as a team this year - to relay out as much information as possible. Hopefully in the process we can make the development of this game extremely transparent so you all, the fans, can get an inside look at how the game gets made. In doing so, we’ll often be discussing new features with you as they are finalized and polished, meaning that each and every one of you out there can give suggestions directly to us to try and shape the game towards your preferred direction. Madden NFL as a Franchise has one overarching goal it has to reach every year, and that is to be the best sports game in history. I’m going to leave the discussion to you all on whether we’ve reached that goal in year’s past, but I do know that now we all get to be a part of making it happen this year. You are no longer posting to forums in vain!

So as we sat down as a team and tried to decide what information we wanted to release first, it really made the most sense to focus more on the technical details for the first part of the year. This is for a couple of reasons – one, the majority of the people looking into Madden info right now are most likely going to be the more hardcore fans (who appreciate the details), and two, we obviously want to save more of the big name feature stuff for later in the year closer to launch time. You should see this theme continue throughout the first few months of our updates. Another reason we really like this approach is that some updates (this post included) are purely about new technology that actually hasn’t been fully fleshed out in the game yet. So the hope is that we can take feedback from the community in regards to maybe new ideas they’d like to see us implement with the new technology. This is one of the most exciting aspects for us as a team in regards to our interaction with the community throughout the development cycle for Madden NFL 10.

Enough talk – on to the new stuff!

Let me tell you a story of playing Madden NFL.
It’s 3rd and 10, and I’m down 14-7 against my buddy over Xbox LIVE. He’s a pretty conservative player, so I know he’ll sit his safeties back a bit and stay with man coverage on my outside receivers. I’m going to try and send my slot WR on a deep fly to clear the safety out, and hit my #1 WR on a Deep In. I saw Kurt Warner and the Rams with their "greatest show on turf" make this look easy week after week in the late 90’s! So I take the snap and analyze the situation quickly – no blitz, and the safeties are dropping out…money. I wish I was better at going through progressions, but I’m not - I’m pretty much watching my #1 WR all the way. He’s just coming out of his break on the deep in, and he’s got at least 2 steps on the defender trailing him in man coverage. I fire it in there, a perfect bullet pass where I think only he can catch it. Right before the ball gets to him the DB turns around and in one quick motion steps in front, picks it off, and is headed back the other way. HUH? THE DB NEVER EVEN SAW THE BALL!!

Ever happened to you? Did your controller survive to tell the tale?

It is my pleasure to introduce Madden’s newest piece of technology, one that is also shared within many of the EA SPORTS games, called "Procedural Awareness". What is it? We’ll you’ve likely heard of “head tracking” with IK. If you haven’t, it’s a way to turn the players head around to face a target dynamically, without the need for canned animations. Well, think of Procedural Awareness (PA for short) as the “next-gen” version of head tracking. Since it is so early in the year, unfortunately I can’t show you any videos of it running in the game, but I can show some “tech demos” of sorts:



This is definitely pretty cool stuff…we can tune how fast the player switches between different targets, and then also how he behaves when he locks on and follows a target. You can already envision this being used by DB’s and WR’s when the ball is thrown, QB’s as they go through progressions, safeties as they drop in zone, and obviously many more cases. In terms of visual fidelity, PA is also a major step up from any other normal IK head tracking solution. We’re in the middle of some changes so I would rather not show you our player model’s face in the tool (his jaw is missing…it isn’t pretty ), but I can show a video of PA running in the tool with an NBA Live player model – Dwayne Wade. This shows off how the eyes track along with the head, the ability to dynamically “blink”, some really smooth blending between different targets, and even how the spine and shoulders can be “pulled” to follow the eyes/head as well:



There’s one last cool feature within PA, and that is a concept of “procedural attitudes”. An attitude is basically a collection of a bunch of different variables that alter the way a player “looks” while he is head tracking. So for the above videos, you basically saw just one attitude – “alert”. But PA allows you to not only just tweak how quickly he reacts and the amount of time it takes him to switch targets and such, but you can also toy with a big collection of variables for players to actually express emotion with their head and eye movement. A big problem in many sports games is making characters feel “alive” – and it applies to Madden often times as soon as the play is over. You don’t want to see a bunch of zombies walking around, but you also don’t want to spend months writing code and adding animations to make players act a little more lifelike (especially when there are so many features we need to attack to more realistically emulate football gameplay). Here’s where PA helps tremendously…it allows artists to create subtle emotional attitudes for players without the need of an engineer. Again there is ZERO canned animation at work here…it’s all totally dynamic and can be created by an animator adjusting a few sliders in the tool. Below is an example video of a few attitudes:



Alright, so what’s Procedural Awareness in a nutshell?
“The ability to procedurally manipulate the spine, neck, head, and eyes on a player in the game; and also add layers of emotion/attitudes on top of those manipulations”.

So the videos really just showcase the technology…not how we implement that technology in our game to actually change the way the game is played. My story above about getting picked off by a DB that can’t see the ball? Well now we can make a DB track the ball realistically and we’ll make sure that he has a true line of sight before he can make a play on the ball. And if/when he gets burned, he can dynamically look down and shake his head with zero new animations or engineering support.

A very exciting thing for our team while posting this is that we are not using PA’s full functionality in the game right now. We have the standard “alert” attitude hooked up for 1) DB’s and WR’s to track the ball, 2) defenders to track the ballcarrier, and 3) the ballcarrier to track threats. So I'm passing it off to you guys:

- Where else would you like to see PA active?
- Are there any new attitudes would you like to see?
- Do you have any suggestions on the best area you think we should actually use the attitudes that we’ve created?

We will follow up in a few months (once we’re actually showing videos of the game) and show what all we changed/added thanks to community feedback. I personally can’t wait!

Enjoy the rest of the Super Bowl!

- Ian Cummings
Lead Designer, Madden NFL 10

Game: Madden NFL 10Reader Score: 7.5/10 - Vote Now
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Madden NFL 10 Videos
Member Comments
# 201 BrianFifaFan @ 02/03/09 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exonerated
This would remove some user catching and user picking as well. We are playing from a God's eye view. Not inside the helmet of the defender. Only the AI is limited by the DBs vision.

And the user controlled player, should be the best player on the field if the user is good.

I want complete control of my player. If we remove user picking and user catching with no Line of vision. Might as well let the cpu v cpu contest every other pass play.
That's not really true. You'd just have to make some decisions as to how to move the player to get him "aware." But you should be limited as to how good a player is by the ratings. His awareness and coverage rating has to have some input or it just comes down to how good you are with the sticks. I'd say that you need to get the right D called or the right help if you have a weak corner. And if he's burnt on a deep route the only animation made available is the faceguard or flailing swat as the ball comes in. Maybe make him totally aware as the receiver looks up for the ball.

I've seen how they handle this in Fifa and, while occasionally frustrating, it's realistic. My man running down the wing can't automatically make a play on the long lob I just sent his way. He has to sense it. It really makes me have to decide how to play the pass, or even how to get my butt back on D. I've had to just keep running past the pass receiver because my guy hasn't seen the ball and he has. Like I said previously, this feature is gonna be huge for the sim aspect of things. As long as implemented properly. Maybe the linebackers will actually over-run the play or the DB will get shook by the double-move. Right now, I haven't seen much in way of organic play. That's what I want most. Even at the expense of my ability to make super-human plays. I'll just have to think before I move the sticks...
 
# 202 BrianFifaFan @ 02/03/09 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cedwebb
Exactly...just cause you control a player doesn't mean that you can just do whatever you want, whenever you want. Remember just cause you see the whole field doesn't mean that the player you are controlling does. Thats the whole key right there. We see all but the players do not and thats how the game should play no matter who you are using IMO. If players are able to move and make incredible plays just cause the user can see whats coming it takes away from the actual abilities of the cyber player, and I think we all agree that we want the players abilities to show through more than anything. Stick skills are important but even the best stick skills should have trouble using a CB rated in the 70's or a QB for that matter. That player is just limited to what they can do..thats why they are rated as such. Thats what was so great about vision cone..it made you play to the cyber players abilities versus just mad stick skills, which is more sim based football.
My points exactly. Sorry, I hadn't seen this before I made my post!
 
# 203 tbbuccaneer87 @ 02/03/09 04:04 PM
im liking the sound of this so far. so since WR's will have their eyes on the ball now and say a DB is watching their eyes but can't turn around in time, will this ultimately lead to more pass interference calls?
 
# 204 Pnutt6 @ 02/03/09 04:06 PM
This is where the line blurs at realism and fun.

No, a DB shouldn't be able to make a play on a ball he doesn't see, and that will be the great thing about this feature. But, as the user, I want to be able to control the players. So if i change to the DB and want to make a play on the ball then I should be able to. There should be some sort of button to press to make him look back for the ball before making a play.

i.e.: hold L1 to look back then triangle to make the int or swat.
if you didn't hold L1 you could still put your hands up but there would be more of a chance you miss the ball.
Looking back will give you a better chance of making the play but risk taking longer and getting burnt by looking away from the receiver.

There is a difference from what the user sees and what the players on the field see. This is what is hard to translate to realism. Like it was said earlier, the vision cone is the most realistic thing added to the passing game but everyone hated it. First person football was another "realistic" feature and that was also crap. If it was all about making the right call and letting it play out, then I'll go play Head Coach. I'm playing Madden because I want to be the players, and make the plays.

100% realism will never be possible, because nobody wants to play a game called: Wake up, go to work, come home, go to bed, repeat.
 
# 205 Lakers 24 7 @ 02/03/09 04:42 PM
*sighs*

While this is a great idea, it's an idea that should be the icing on the cake. Unfortunately, when judging by Madden 09 the cake has yet to be properly baked. Neat feature, good news, but I think the hardcore fans want to know about what's being done to the core of the game. The X's and O's that have not been realistically replicated yet, as well as player movement and momentum.

I'll keep my eyes open for further news, because it is still early. But, the sim football fans are looking for the true meat and potatos first.
 
# 206 cedwebb @ 02/03/09 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pnutt6
This is where the line blurs at realism and fun.

No, a DB shouldn't be able to make a play on a ball he doesn't see, and that will be the great thing about this feature. But, as the user, I want to be able to control the players. So if i change to the DB and want to make a play on the ball then I should be able to. There should be some sort of button to press to make him look back for the ball before making a play.

i.e.: hold L1 to look back then triangle to make the int or swat.
if you didn't hold L1 you could still put your hands up but there would be more of a chance you miss the ball.
Looking back will give you a better chance of making the play but risk taking longer and getting burnt by looking away from the receiver.

There is a difference from what the user sees and what the players on the field see. This is what is hard to translate to realism. Like it was said earlier, the vision cone is the most realistic thing added to the passing game but everyone hated it. First person football was another "realistic" feature and that was also crap. If it was all about making the right call and letting it play out, then I'll go play Head Coach. I'm playing Madden because I want to be the players, and make the plays.

100% realism will never be possible, because nobody wants to play a game called: Wake up, go to work, come home, go to bed, repeat.
I like your idea of having to hit L1 to look back first as the user and then hit the swat button. That really would be killer if that is how it would work. I like how if the L1 is not pressed to look back you have a better chance of getting burned or to add to that, thats when the DB would have a better chance of grabbing on or faceguarding. So that L1 button would be really important for obvious reasons.

If this feature works the way everyone is thinking it will add so much to all aspects of gameplay but even more to the user. As it currently works with Madden it can get a little boring playing defense at times and I love the defensive side of the ball. It would add so much to that aspect of the game and would make the game feel like you are so much more involved IMO. Playing any position in the secondary would be so much more fun as there would be so much more functionality to be involved with in terms of controlling your player. You could really be proud of making the pro bowl as a DB as you would be really working your tail off all season chasing defenders while keeping an eye on the QB and the ball. Sounds like fun!
 
# 207 Pnutt6 @ 02/03/09 05:08 PM
Yeah, I agree, and there should be different sets of animations for looking back or not. If you look back you swat at the ball, and if you don't you just throw your hands up to attempt to hit it.

The chance of you swatting the ball should be greater if you look back but not impossible if you don't.

Plus, the DB's ratings should effect his chances and a reaction time rating should effect how long it would take to spot the ball.
 
# 208 LBzrule @ 02/03/09 06:11 PM
Ian make sure that people on offense have to play within the framework of PA. I'm getting at the "quick rocket" here. Because what guys will do is simply wait until the DB turns his head and then bullet pass, high, switch and rocket. Make sure this cannot happen. Matter of fact something needs to govern that if you throw too early before the WR makes his cut you over or under throw because he's not aware you threw it, if it is a route where he is making a cut. No amount of stick skill should be able to save you from making a bad decision in throwing the ball early. Make the QB and his throw based on the WR's route.
 
# 209 roadman @ 02/03/09 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBzrule
Ian make sure that people on offense have to play within the framework of PA. I'm getting at the "quick rocket" here. Because what guys will do is simply wait until the DB turns his head and then bullet pass, high, switch and rocket. Make sure this cannot happen. Matter of fact something needs to govern that if you throw too early before the WR makes his cut you over or under throw because he's not aware you threw it, if it is a route where he is making a cut. No amount of stick skill should be able to save you from making a bad decision in throwing the ball early. Make the QB and his throw based on the WR's route.

Man, I love this suggestion. Nice suggestion LBZ.
 
# 210 BrianFifaFan @ 02/03/09 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBzrule
Ian make sure that people on offense have to play within the framework of PA. I'm getting at the "quick rocket" here. Because what guys will do is simply wait until the DB turns his head and then bullet pass, high, switch and rocket. Make sure this cannot happen. Matter of fact something needs to govern that if you throw too early before the WR makes his cut you over or under throw because he's not aware you threw it, if it is a route where he is making a cut. No amount of stick skill should be able to save you from making a bad decision in throwing the ball early. Make the QB and his throw based on the WR's route.
Amen!
 
# 211 cedwebb @ 02/03/09 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBzrule
Ian make sure that people on offense have to play within the framework of PA. I'm getting at the "quick rocket" here. Because what guys will do is simply wait until the DB turns his head and then bullet pass, high, switch and rocket. Make sure this cannot happen. Matter of fact something needs to govern that if you throw too early before the WR makes his cut you over or under throw because he's not aware you threw it, if it is a route where he is making a cut. No amount of stick skill should be able to save you from making a bad decision in throwing the ball early. Make the QB and his throw based on the WR's route.
This is a good point..The rules that govern the PA should be enforced on both sides of the ball..period! If a QB decides to throw to a reciever that is not looking the ball should simply sail over that area. If you throw over the middle and the receiver is not looking the ball most likely will end up 10 yards past the reciever and into the safeties arms.

Just make the recievers at a certain point in there route start looking towards the QB.
 
# 212 BrianFifaFan @ 02/03/09 06:43 PM
Ian, will PA also be tied to the ability to tackle? That would be really a big step toward realism. The guy has to square up or he goes into a funky missed tackle or flail and miss animation. For me the passing game and the tackles are the biggest places where PA would make a world of difference off the jump. Blocking would also be huge if they were bound by the "you have to see it to do it" creed.
 
# 213 jfsolo @ 02/03/09 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pnutt6
Yeah, I agree, and there should be different sets of animations for looking back or not. If you look back you swat at the ball, and if you don't you just throw your hands up to attempt to hit it.

The chance of you swatting the ball should be greater if you look back but not impossible if you don't.

Plus, the DB's ratings should effect his chances and a reaction time rating should effect how long it would take to spot the ball.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBzrule
Ian make sure that people on offense have to play within the framework of PA. I'm getting at the "quick rocket" here. Because what guys will do is simply wait until the DB turns his head and then bullet pass, high, switch and rocket. Make sure this cannot happen. Matter of fact something needs to govern that if you throw too early before the WR makes his cut you over or under throw because he's not aware you threw it, if it is a route where he is making a cut. No amount of stick skill should be able to save you from making a bad decision in throwing the ball early. Make the QB and his throw based on the WR's route.
These two posts are on the beam, and the D team really needs to make sure they implement these ideas into the game, without them PA will be severely neutered, and in some cases totally irrelevant.
 
# 214 cedwebb @ 02/03/09 07:14 PM
The more I think about this feature the more excited I get because of what it could mean to gameplay. I was just talking with my bro and I was running this concept by him to get some feedback. He gave me a very interesting idea as far as the tracking of the ball goes.

There have been some suggestions about how this will affect the user controlled players and such. Well some have suggested hitting certain buttons to get the players head to turn and look at the ball which at first I thought would be a great idea. Now my bro is a long time Madden player (all of them) but he just has never had the mad stick skills. So we were talking about players AWR and what that would mean to this new PA feature. We came up with this idea and to me it makes all the sense in the world and would translate easily to Madden players with not so good stick skills to the very best.

Why not make the PA feature directly tied into the AWR rating? With this you don't have to ever worry about turning your players head to find the ball as it is all based soley on the player you are controlling AWR level. The example is this, QB scans the field and throws toward the reciever, now you are controlling the DB but he will start tracking the ball and it will happen based on his AWR. Now once you see the DB turn his head, that is your cue to try and go for the swat or pick. When you hit the swat button before his head turns is where you will get burned or cause PI, or just make a terrible attempt. So you now are just running with the DB and waiting for that right time (head turning) to make the play.

Here is the deal, every DB will have a different level of AWR so they will all react at different times during the play to the ball when in there area. Champ Bailey and his AWR combined all his other attributes should be able to run with WRs and look into the ball for a lot longer than DBs that are rated in the 80's with lower AWR levels. Hope your still following!

Now on the offensive side of the ball the same should be applied to WRs of course. A WR running his route has a ball thrown his direction and depending on his AWR is when he will start to track the ball. So some WRs with low AWR levels will turn there head to track the ball alot later than Vets with great AWR, and that will def make a differnce in him making the catch or not. If the ball is thrown too soon the WR may not even get his head around if he has low AWR and thats when you see a ball go sailing over his head or off by 10 yards.

The whole concept is that players will turn the head toward the ball to make a play based on their AWR level and that is what will make the AWR level acutally mean something. Hope this all made sense.
 
# 215 ch46647 @ 02/03/09 07:25 PM
^^^^ Excellent idea!
 
# 216 LBzrule @ 02/03/09 08:18 PM
Just to echo what others are saying, it definitely also needs to be applied to the offensive line. A Left tackle should not be able to run all the way from the left over to the right to pick up a free defender. Matter of fact, the Oline might be the biggest area of impact. I'm don't know all of the logistics, but this could be a way of eliminating psychic blocking, but then it might also have people crying. Let's say I line my defense up on a passing down with 7 men on the line like a punt block and it is 3rd and 10, we just have the line stacked and spread, 7 on the line. With respect to the Oline how would PA work in this situation? Althought I have 7 on the line I might only rush 4. How does PA account for all of these guys up front outnumbering the OLine, but then on the snap, what should happen?
 
# 217 IXI DECAY IXI @ 02/03/09 08:28 PM
To get into the whole O-Line talk. The main thing that needs to be added using this head tracking is the D-Line! I'm kinda sick of having my Left Guard have a perfect block set up and a wide open whole available only to have their whole defensive line all of a sudden break off the block and stop my guy for no gain.

I will try and post a video of what I mean later in case you guys don't understand what i'm talking about...
 
# 218 Pnutt6 @ 02/03/09 08:42 PM
Another way of controlling the user DB's PA, could be that once the ball is in the air the user holds either the intercept or swat button to turn his head for the ball and release the button to execute the move. This would eliminate using a second button, and the longer you hold the button, the better look you get on the ball. Also the longer you look at the ball the more you will lose the receiver. This happens all the time in the NFL when the coverage is looking into the backfield and loses a step on the receiver.

There should also be zero chance for an interception if the DB does not have a lock on the ball.

The more I think about it the more procedural awareness could have an effect on so many aspects of the game.

User Passing:
Mostly visual unless used like vision cone without the cone
CPU Passing:
Able to read the QB's pass or his ability to look off receivers
Blind side blitzing

Coverage/Receiving:
Having to see the ball before making a play

Blocking:
Blind side blocks on kick and int returns
(The best hits in football never seen in Madden)

Tackling:
Hits on receivers across the middle.

Sideline:
Actually watching the game
 
# 219 christdream @ 02/03/09 09:50 PM
sounds great. loving all the info and updates they u guys are willing to share with the public. id love to see much more OL and DL play. hands inside with the defensive line as they take on blocks. seperation once they get there hands inside on the O linemans shoulder pads and then get seperation and throw the lineman to the side to make a play. same thing goes for the linebackers too. very detailed press man to man coverage for the defensive backs.. feetwork and hand placement when the CB attempts to press the WR at the line of scrimmage. include the new feature here that u guys have come up with, which is very good i must say.
 
# 220 DLaren @ 02/03/09 09:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cedwebb

Why not make the PA feature directly tied into the AWR rating? With this you don't have to ever worry about turning your players head to find the ball as it is all based soley on the player you are controlling AWR level. The example is this, QB scans the field and throws toward the reciever, now you are controlling the DB but he will start tracking the ball and it will happen based on his AWR. Now once you see the DB turn his head, that is your cue to try and go for the swat or pick. When you hit the swat button before his head turns is where you will get burned or cause PI, or just make a terrible attempt. So you now are just running with the DB and waiting for that right time (head turning) to make the play.

Now on the offensive side of the ball the same should be applied to WRs of course. A WR running his route has a ball thrown his direction and depending on his AWR is when he will start to track the ball. So some WRs with low AWR levels will turn there head to track the ball alot later than Vets with great AWR, and that will def make a differnce in him making the catch or not. If the ball is thrown too soon the WR may not even get his head around if he has low AWR and thats when you see a ball go sailing over his head or off by 10 yards.

The whole concept is that players will turn the head toward the ball to make a play based on their AWR level and that is what will make the AWR level acutally mean something. Hope this all made sense.




I hope P.A. can and will be used in a manner such as this.
 


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