Madden NFL 11 News Post

FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

01:46 PM - January 24, 2011 by RaychelSnr

I recentely sat down for a talk with FBGRatings.com's Dan Berens to discuss his site's vision and what's going on over there today. The site is currently working on getting accurate ratings for every player using real hard data converted into the Madden ratings universe. Dan claims that when these numbers are plugged into the game, it plays much better and much closer to real life. Check out the interview below and also check out Dan's website to see what he's got going on!

Interview with Berens on the OS Radio Show on BlogTalkRadio

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Member Comments

# 141 LHSLax_D24 @ 05/15/11 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLF


	the Ratings ALWAYS pissed me off.... i mean the Ratins are suppose to be Reflected of how good that player is at his position right? so AD and CJ have 99 acceleration because for a RB they have the highest of any but why in the world has Mike Vick never had a 99 speed??? he is after ALL the Fastest QB in NFL History , the only one to have over 1,000 yards rushing etc. and yet his speed never passed a 95 why is that no QB to this day could out run him and yet they never fixed it(i understand he is older now but still in his Prime since he was a QB and the Fastest Ever why didnt he have Ratings to Reflect it) should have gave him 99 Speed accel and Agility imo from his rookie year to Madden 07

Because the rating aren't reflected position-by-position, but rather as a whole. This means that if Vick were to have 99 speed, he would be just as fast as Chris Johnson, which he is not. Are you say that the fastest lineman should have 99 speed, because he is faster than all other linemen?

# 142 TLF @ 05/15/11 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHSLax_D24


	Because the rating aren't reflected position-by-position, but rather as a whole. This means that if Vick were to have 99 speed, he would be just as fast as Chris Johnson, which he is not. Are you say that the fastest lineman should have 99 speed, because he is faster than all other linemen?

so if i gave Oher 99 speed he would be as fast as CJ of the Titans , LIES...

same if a gave a RB 99 strength i doubt he is as Strong as Haynesworth

# 143 LHSLax_D24 @ 05/15/11 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLF


	so if i gave Oher 99 speed he would be as fast as CJ of the Titans , LIES... same if a gave a RB 99 strength i doubt he is as Strong as Haynesworth

That is exactly what I'm saying...

# 144 Playmakers @ 05/15/11 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLF


	the Ratings ALWAYS pissed me off.... i mean the Ratins are suppose to be Reflected of how good that player is at his position right? so AD and CJ have 99 acceleration because for a RB they have the highest of any but why in the world has Mike Vick never had a 99 speed??? he is after ALL the Fastest QB in NFL History , the only one to have over 1,000 yards rushing etc. and yet his speed never passed a 95 why is that no QB to this day could out run him and yet they never fixed it(i understand he is older now but still in his Prime since he was a QB and the Fastest Ever why didnt he have Ratings to Reflect it) should have gave him 99 Speed accel and Agility imo from his rookie year to Madden 07

uhhhh maybe because he's assigning them their true numbers based on hard data provided and not the overated crap EA assigns

I found a old EA roster file with Michael Irvin at 93 speed now ask yourself when has Michael Irvin ever ran that fast?

The purpose of his site is to give guys their true atheletic attributes on the field if you want Vick to be 99 accross the board to satisfy your desires then by all means edit him in fact if you want the fastest player at each position to be 99 speed you can do it

But i will say this with so many LB's now being rated at their proper speed, acceleration and agility Vick won't be caught from behind using these ratings even if's not a 99 speed

You should spend a day observing the speed ratings of some of your favorite LB's you'll see just how overated EA has most of them in the game every year....

In fact i'll tell you right if LB has great pursuit and play recognition skills he doesn't have to be 80+ speed to play fast on the field those ratings will take care of it

# 145 LHSLax_D24 @ 05/15/11 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playmakers


	You should speed a day observing the speed ratings of some of your favorite LB's you'll see just how overated EA has most of them in the game every year.... In fact i'll tell you right if LB has great pursuit and play recognition skills he doesn't have to be 80+ speed to play fast on the field those ratings will take care of it

Exactly. Before it was removed, Ray Lewis had a 70 speed and London Fletcher had a 73 or something. I'd imagine that they would have VERY high pursuit ratings.

# 146 TLF @ 05/15/11 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHSLax_D24


	That is exactly what I'm saying...

********....

# 147 DCEBB2001 @ 05/15/11 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLF


	the Ratings ALWAYS pissed me off.... i mean the Ratins are suppose to be Reflected of how good that player is at his position right? so AD and CJ have 99 acceleration because for a RB they have the highest of any but why in the world has Mike Vick never had a 99 speed??? he is after ALL the Fastest QB in NFL History , the only one to have over 1,000 yards rushing etc. and yet his speed never passed a 95 why is that no QB to this day could out run him and yet they never fixed it(i understand he is older now but still in his Prime since he was a QB and the Fastest Ever why didnt he have Ratings to Reflect it) should have gave him 99 Speed accel and Agility imo from his rookie year to Madden 07

Vick has never had a 99 speed because he has never been that fast. Is he the fastest QB in NFL history? Yes. But, that doesn't mean he is worthy of a 99 SPD rating. Since 1998 there have only been 2 QBs to be worth of a speed in the 90s based on the hard data. Vick and Reggie McNeal. Just because a guy plays QB and is the fastest at that position doesn't mean he is worthy of having a 99 SPD. Same goes for any other attribute at any other position.

# 148 DCEBB2001 @ 05/15/11 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHSLax_D24


	Because the rating aren't reflected position-by-position, but rather as a whole. This means that if Vick were to have 99 speed, he would be just as fast as Chris Johnson, which he is not. Are you say that the fastest lineman should have 99 speed, because he is faster than all other linemen?

Well said! That is precisely the aim of the FBG ratings system; ratings based upon hard data regardless of position.

# 149 DCEBB2001 @ 05/15/11 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLF


	so if i gave Oher 99 speed he would be as fast as CJ of the Titans , LIES... same if a gave a RB 99 strength i doubt he is as Strong as Haynesworth

The fact that Ht and Wt have no bearing on gameplay in Madden, means that if 2 players have the same ratings they will perform the same. Take a 5-5, 160lb Kicker and a 6-10, 400lb OT and rate them the same in every attribute category. They will perform the same in the game because the ratings determine the gameplay outcomes. That is why it is imperative to have ratings that make sense and are accurate, something which has not happened effectively in Madden since Madden 98 IMO.

# 150 DCEBB2001 @ 05/15/11 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playmakers


	uhhhh maybe because he's assigning them their true numbers based on hard data provided and not the overated crap EA assigns I found a old EA roster file with Michael Irvin at 93 speed now ask yourself when has Michael Irvin ever ran that fast? The purpose of his site is to give guys their true atheletic attributes on the field if you want Vick to be 99 accross the board to satisfy your desires then by all means edit him in fact if you want the fastest player at each position to be 99 speed you can do it But i will say this with so many LB's now being rated at their proper speed, acceleration and agility Vick won't be caught from behind using these ratings even if's not a 99 speed You should spend a day observing the speed ratings of some of your favorite LB's you'll see just how overated EA has most of them in the game every year.... In fact i'll tell you right if LB has great pursuit and play recognition skills he doesn't have to be 80+ speed to play fast on the field those ratings will take care of it

That is precisely what I am doing. Using hard data for in-game results via the utilization of numbers and scouting reports TOGETHER to create ratings that effectively imitate player gameplay in Madden.

The example of LB speed ratings is great! That is why I had to do things this way. LBs that run in the 4.6s should not be able to run down RBs who run in the 4.4s. However, their utilization of other attributes like PRC, PUR, and ACC can allow them to be effective despite the deficiency in speed. In other words, EA has always used SPEED to negate or equalize player performance when in reality players can seem to "play faster" by being smarter, not necessarily more athletic.

# 151 DCEBB2001 @ 05/15/11 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHSLax_D24


	Exactly. Before it was removed, Ray Lewis had a 70 speed and London Fletcher had a 73 or something. I'd imagine that they would have VERY high pursuit ratings.

Here is an example for those LBs based on my system:

Lewis:
SPD 67
PUR 84
BSH 99
FMV 72
MCV 66
ZCV 69
POW 95
PRC 97
TAK 93
CTH 50

Fletcher:
SPD 71
PUR 86
BSH 95
FMV 49
MCV 68
ZCV 71
POW 91
PRC 95
TAK 97
CTH 45

So based on these 2 LBs and the info provided, Fletcher is more athletic. He is faster, pursues better, is a more solid tackler, and a bit better in coverage. However, Lewis is more polished with technique. He gets off of blocks better, is a great pass rusher with his FMV, is a bigger hitter, recognizes plays better, and is a better receiver as a LB.

So now it makes it a game of "take your pick". Do you want the more athletic LB or the bigger hitter and pass rusher? That is why I love these ratings sooo much! It forces you to make those tough decisions on who to start in your games based upon the style you play.

# 152 TLF @ 05/15/11 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	Vick has never had a 99 speed because he has never been that fast. Is he the fastest QB in NFL history? Yes. But, that doesn't mean he is worthy of a 99 SPD rating. Since 1998 there have only been 2 QBs to be worth of a speed in the 90s based on the hard data. Vick and Reggie McNeal. Just because a guy plays QB and is the fastest at that position doesn't mean he is worthy of having a 99 SPD. Same goes for any other attribute at any other position.

NO OFFENSE but anyone who has played Vick or seen him play in Action will telkl you he is the Fastest QB and that means his Rating should reflect that (they gave Hester a 100)

he ran a 4.27
CJ ran a 4.24 and Combine record

they should have gave it to him

just like id ONLY give Barry Sanders 100 Eulsiveness as a RB , only Vick deserves that Top Speed for a QB

# 153 DCEBB2001 @ 05/15/11 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLF


	NO OFFENSE but anyone who has played Vick or seen him play in Action will telkl you he is the Fastest QB and that means his Rating should reflect that (they gave Hester a 100) he ran a 4.27 CJ ran a 4.24 and Combine record they should have gave it to him just like id ONLY give Barry Sanders 100 Eulsiveness as a RB , only Vick deserves that Top Speed for a QB

He is the fastest QB yes, but not the fastest player. Just because you are the fastest QB does not mean you deserve a 99 SPD. Let's say Larry Fitzgerald has the best hands. Does that mean that he should be a 99 CTH even though Jerry Rice had the best hands ever? Of course not. It is asinine to think that.

As for Devin Hester, he NEVER possessed speed worthy of a 100 rating IMO. He only ran a 4.35 at his pro day and 4.42 at the combine in 2006. He breaks big returns because of the emphasis the Bears coaching staff placed on Special Teams (and I would know because it was constantly talked about when they played my Packers) and he has great vision to read blocks and find open spaces. Speed rarely had anything to do with it outside of those two more significant attributes.

Also, Vick NEVER ran a 4.27. Show me one legitimate scouting service that had him at 4.27. NFLDS had him at a 4.33 and they have the best online sources for draft data available to the public. Oh, and for the record, Chris Johnson's 4.24 was not the fastest record time recorded at the combine. It was actually Trindon Holliday in 2010 with 4.21. When NFL.com or NFL network posts a time they post the average, not the fastest recorded time out of the 6 official times taken. They use this at NFLDS:

Note: NFLDraftScout.com uses the best verifiable 40-yard time for each player. There is no single, official 40-yard time for any player, even those who run at the Indianapolis Combine. Those players who participate in the 40 yards at the Combine actually run twice and on each run they are timed by two hand-held stopwatches and one electronic timer (that is actually initiated by hand on the player's first movement). Combine data includes all six of those times for each player, but no single official time. Team scouts and coaches have various approaches for getting the 40 time they use from those six timings. Some use averages. Some throw out slowest and fastest and then average the rest. In deference to each player, NFLDraftScout.com attempts to use the best verifiable time that seems appropriate for each player. That is the 40 time we post.

Here are the times if you like. These are from the scouting combine in Indy only, not from Pro Days:

4.21 - Trindon Holliday, (WR), LSU - 2010
4.22 - Jacoby Ford, (WR), Clemson - 2010
4.24 - Chris Johnson, (RB), East Carolina - 2008
4.25 - *Darrius Heyward-Bey, (WR), Maryland - 2009
4.25 - Demarcus Van ****, (CB), Miami - 2011
4.26 - Jerome Mathis, (WR), Hampton - 2005
4.27 - C.J. Spiller, (RB), Clemson - 2010
4.27 - Stanford Routt, (CB), Houston - 2005
4.28 - Mike Wallace, (WR), Mississippi - 2009
4.29 - Johnny Knox, (WR), Abilene Christian - 2009
4.29 - *Fabian Washington, (CB), Nebraska - 2005
4.29 - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, (CB), Tennessee State - 2008
4.30 - Mike Thomas, (WR), Arizona - 2009
4.30 - Darrent Williams, (CB), Oklahoma State - 2005
4.30 - Yamon Figurs, (WR), Kansas State - 2007
4.31 - Tyvon Branch, (CB), Connecticut - 2008
4.31 - Santana Moss, (WR), Miami - 2001
4.31 - Tiquan Underwood, (WR), Rutgers - 2009
4.31 - Aaron Lockett, (WR), Kansas State - 2002
4.31 - *Johnathan Joseph, (CB), South Carolina - 2006
4.31 - *Patrick Peterson, (CB), LSU - 2011
4.31 - Taylor Mays, (FS), Southern Cal - 2010
4.31 - Deon Butler, (WR), Penn State - 2009
4.31 - *Justin King, (CB), Penn State - 2008
4.31 - Edmond Gates, (WR), Abilene Christian - 2011

I strongly urge you to provide some source material to back up your arguments because it is becoming all too easy to shoot holes in them.

# 154 TLF @ 05/15/11 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	He is the fastest QB yes, but not the fastest player. Just because you are the fastest QB does not mean you deserve a 99 SPD. Let's say Larry Fitzgerald has the best hands. Does that mean that he should be a 99 CTH even though Jerry Rice had the best hands ever? Of course not. It is asinine to think that. As for Devin Hester, he NEVER possessed speed worthy of a 100 rating IMO. He only ran a 4.35 at his pro day and 4.42 at the combine in 2006. He breaks big returns because of the emphasis the Bears coaching staff placed on Special Teams (and I would know because it was constantly talked about when they played my Packers) and he has great vision to read blocks and find open spaces. Speed rarely had anything to do with it outside of those two more significant attributes. Also, Vick NEVER ran a 4.27. Show me one legitimate scouting service that had him at 4.27. NFLDS had him at a 4.33 and they have the best online sources for draft data available to the public. Oh, and for the record, Chris Johnson's 4.24 was not the fastest record time recorded at the combine. It was actually Trindon Holliday in 2010 with 4.21. When NFL.com or NFL network posts a time they post the average, not the fastest recorded time out of the 6 official times taken. They use this at NFLDS: Note: NFLDraftScout.com uses the best verifiable 40-yard time for each player. There is no single, official 40-yard time for any player, even those who run at the Indianapolis Combine. Those players who participate in the 40 yards at the Combine actually run twice and on each run they are timed by two hand-held stopwatches and one electronic timer (that is actually initiated by hand on the player's first movement). Combine data includes all six of those times for each player, but no single official time. Team scouts and coaches have various approaches for getting the 40 time they use from those six timings. Some use averages. Some throw out slowest and fastest and then average the rest. In deference to each player, NFLDraftScout.com attempts to use the best verifiable time that seems appropriate for each player. That is the 40 time we post. Here are the times if you like. These are from the scouting combine in Indy only, not from Pro Days: 4.21 - Trindon Holliday, (WR), LSU - 2010 4.22 - Jacoby Ford, (WR), Clemson - 2010 4.24 - Chris Johnson, (RB), East Carolina - 2008 4.25 - Darrius Heyward-Bey, (WR), Maryland - 2009 4.25* - Demarcus Van **, (CB), Miami - 2011 4.26 - Jerome Mathis, (WR), Hampton - 2005 4.27 - C.J. Spiller, (RB), Clemson - 2010 4.27 - Stanford Routt, (CB), Houston - 2005 4.28 - Mike Wallace, (WR), Mississippi - 2009 4.29 - Johnny Knox, (WR), Abilene Christian - 2009 4.29** - Fabian Washington, (CB), Nebraska - 2005 4.29* - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, (CB), Tennessee State - 2008 4.30 - Mike Thomas, (WR), Arizona - 2009 4.30 - Darrent Williams, (CB), Oklahoma State - 2005 4.30 - Yamon Figurs, (WR), Kansas State - 2007 4.31 - Tyvon Branch, (CB), Connecticut - 2008 4.31 - Santana Moss, (WR), Miami - 2001 4.31 - Tiquan Underwood, (WR), Rutgers - 2009 4.31 - Aaron Lockett, (WR), Kansas State - 2002 4.31 - Johnathan Joseph, (CB), South Carolina - 2006 4.31* - Patrick Peterson, (CB), LSU - 2011 4.31* - Taylor Mays, (FS), Southern Cal - 2010 4.31 - Deon Butler, (WR), Penn State - 2009 4.31 - Justin King, (CB), Penn State - 2008 4.31* - Edmond Gates, (WR), Abilene Christian - 2011 I strongly urge you to provide some source material to back up your arguments because it is becoming all too easy to shoot holes in them.

i said Hester ran a 4.27 if u actually pay attention when i talked about his 100 speed

# 155 DCEBB2001 @ 05/16/11 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLF


	i said Hester ran a 4.27 if u actually pay attention when i talked about his 100 speed

It is actually irrelevant although to me it seems you were still referencing Vick since your comment about Hester was in parentheses and was not the primary subject of your sentence. Alas, this is not an English class so I digress...

Hester never ran a 4.27. His best official time was a 4.35 at his pro day on March 4th, 2006. His best recorded time at Miami was 4.36 during a campus workout where he also displayed a 285lb bench press and 38 inch vertical jump. Once again, I ask you to provide clear evidence that explains otherwise from a reliable source. Don't bother looking on wikipedia.org because the information they have is also incorrect for his pre-draft measurables. On the site they list it as 4.26 even though when you click on the citation for those numbers they prompt NFLDS where it says 4.35. Perhaps an error on the part of those who created the page on wikipedia.org?

# 156 TLF @ 05/16/11 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	It is actually irrelevant although to me it seems you were still referencing Vick since your comment about Hester was in parentheses and was not the primary subject of your sentence. Alas, this is not an English class so I digress... Hester never ran a 4.27. His best official time was a 4.35 at his pro day on March 4th, 2006. His best recorded time at Miami was 4.36 during a campus workout where he also displayed a 285lb bench press and 38 inch vertical jump. Once again, I ask you to provide clear evidence that explains otherwise from a reliable source. Don't bother looking on wikipedia.org because the information they have is also incorrect for his pre-draft measurables. On the site they list it as 4.26 even though when you click on the citation for those numbers they prompt NFLDS where it says 4.35. Perhaps an error on the part of those who created the page on wikipedia.org?

and Most of the guys you just named are Track guys of cours ethey RUN a Faster 40 they are tarined to do that in Track....

Mike Vick has that Speed that he takes off after one step and can make Huge plays with his Feet and wont be caught once given the edge on a Run

most of the guys you just named have staright line speed , Vick is one of Few who does every move he has at Full speed

they even had to tone this down because in Madden 04 they said it was unfair , but to be honest it isnt , use a QB spy and stop Bitching that your D-Linemen are too slow and get some with speed to contain him , period point Blank

thats why he deserved a 99 speed imo

# 157 kevj349 @ 05/16/11 03:01 AM

Hillis breaks a lot of tackles, soooo 99 break tackle

# 158 DCEBB2001 @ 05/16/11 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLF


	and Most of the guys you just named are Track guys of cours ethey RUN a Faster 40 they are tarined to do that in Track.... Mike Vick has that Speed that he takes off after one step and can make Huge plays with his Feet and wont be caught once given the edge on a Run most of the guys you just named have staright line speed , Vick is one of Few who does every move he has at Full speed they even had to tone this down because in Madden 04 they said it was unfair , but to be honest it isnt , use a QB spy and stop Bitching that your D-Linemen are too slow and get some with speed to contain him , period point Blank thats why he deserved a 99 speed imo

First of all I have seen Vick caught PLENTY of times even when given the edge. Does that mean he deserves a 99 speed? No. Secondly, if he is able to "every move he has at full speed" like you say (which is highly speculative to begin with) that is the AGI rating that controls that behavior, not the speed rating. You still have not provided any evidence of Vick being worthy of the 99 speed. Keep trying though.

# 159 DCEBB2001 @ 05/16/11 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevj349


	Hillis breaks a lot of tackles, soooo 99 break tackle

Yeah and Rex Grossman made the Super Bowl in 2006 so I guess he needs a 99 accuracy

# 160 TMJOHNS18 @ 05/16/11 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	The example of LB speed ratings is great! That is why I had to do things this way. LBs that run in the 4.6s should not be able to run down RBs who run in the 4.4s.

Running in a straight line in shorts is way different than in a game with pads. I'm interested in trying these adjusted ratings out, but it just seems that with all the emphases on drill results will not translate over too well in the game.

For example, look at Legarrette Blount and Peyton Hillis. There's a lot more RB's with better verticals then them but you don't see them hurdling defenders. Theres more to a football player then just doing well in drills. Just because a guy is slower in the 3 cone doesn't mean he can't be the best change of direction player.

Looking at 40 times, just because two guys run the same time doesn't mean they are the same speed. If my 10 yard split is twice as fast as yours, but we finish at 4.6, then you are faster then me. And even if they run truly identical times, wouldn't a heavier guy have better ACC if he is able to run the same splits as a guy who weighs 25+ less?

Think if it as 2 cars drag racing each other. If they leave the line at the same and one of them has a 10 car lead at the 660' mark then that car accelerates faster then the other. But, if they finish dead even, then the other car has a higher top speed. You see this with some running backs. They have great burst, but don't have the top speed to outrun defenders.

So, looking at 4.4 hb vrs a 4.6 lb, who says that the LB can't run down the HB in the open field? If the HB is 5-8 190, and the LB is 6-4 240, the different between them could be that the HB ACC way faster then the LB, but top end speed could be identical or even favor the LB.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that there is a lot more to consider when rating players other then saying if a guy runs X.XX then he gets a XX rating. Madden doesn't account for the weight at all, so whatever speed rating a player has is their top speed (300lb DT and 170lb HB run head to head with 99 speed).

So when rating a player only based off the 40, then all splits must be used. With equal 40's, guys with quicker 10 yard splits have better ACC but lower SPD, since they reach their top end quicker. Guys with lower 10 yard splits have lower ACC but higher SPD. If a guy with a lower 40 covers the last 20 yards faster then a guy with a quicker 40, his SPD should be higher but ACC lower since it takes him longer to get up to speed. And if you break this down as much as you want, yard for yard, you'll still see on Sunday plays that throw all these drills out the window. The only way to know if a guy can play is to throw him on the field and see what happens.

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