Madden NFL 11 News Post

Madden NFL 11 Interview: Real-Time Physics and More with Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

06:24 PM - July 9, 2010 by Steve_OS

GoMadden has posted an interview with Ian Cummings, Creative Director of Madden NFL 11.

Quote:


	GoMadden: "Why was it important for the team to slow down development of Franchise and Superstar modes this year? What kind of hurdles had to be overcome that were different from previous seasons?" Ian: "In simple terms, what we have learned by listening to our community is that people are getting bored. The data backs this up in the fact that less than 10% of our Franchise gamers even make it past year 2, and less than 3% of our Superstar users make it past year 2. As the previous design teams rushed to get Madden NFL 06 and Madden NFL 07 to market, they were forced to make the decision of using rather old technology from PS2-days to create Franchise and Superstar. So as a design team we made the decision to not make any major upgrades to this very fragile (and difficult to update) system and instead focus more on online and gameplay and dedicate people towards planning and working for the future. We have already built one of the deepest console career modes in history with NFL Head Coach 09, and we learned a lot of lessons from that product, so moving forward I am really excited with what we can accomplish once we get a solid foundation and better architecture in place."

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Member Comments

# 41 Bash @ 07/10/10 01:42 PM

Does this mean there is officially no online franchise improvement? If so I'm skipping Madden 11.

I really want exhibition matches, practice mode and salary cap on online franchise!!!

# 42 TDogg09 @ 07/10/10 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berad88


	Tdogg09, I was talking about why it might not be doable on the current consoles. Having the whole physics package plus all the goodies that madden already has. Nobody knows if that would work because it has not been done. The reason I was saying about the players looking more human is because the physics effects on a human would not be the exact same if they used something else like marshmallow men, or their furturistic half human half robot looking creatures. Point being that in order to see the best representation of the physics engine the football players need to look like actual football players.

Okay, I see your point. There's no reason why it couldn't be done on this generation of consoles though. The physics are probably the hardest thing to implement, and that's been done. So, it just remains to add the rest of the stuff (but maybe I'm over simplifying it, I don't know).

As for your argument about the players not looking human, I agree with Only1LT that they do look human, it's just that they are all the same size, and the padding is different. It would be very interesting to see how they'd implement the physics engine with varying player models. I think it'd be great because it would then make every hit even that much more different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANDROMADA 1


	Some of you guys need to stop bringing up the other game. Just giving a heads up is all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Only1LT


	To further Spank's point, I think that it is more than OK to bring up Backbreaker in the context of this thread, I think it's only logical. How can you not discuss and compare Backbreaker, a Football game that has a physics engine, when you are talking about Madden potentially implementing one? How could you not? It is totally relevant. A mod can disagree, but that won't make it any less so.

I completely agree with Only1LT here. There would be no discussion of real time physics other than "that'd be awesome!" or "I hope that gets in" if we aren't allowed to compare it to Backbreaker (in this specific thread). If we discuss Backbreaker, at least we have a frame of reference so we may see how it would possibly work in Madden.

# 43 Cryolemon @ 07/10/10 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swanlee


	Well it has already been done,it may not be possible for the Madden Engine to handle it but that doesn't mean it is not possible as another game has done it with great on field results.

What I meant was I think it's his view that it's not possible to make it work with Madden. Not that it's not possible at all (which is clearly wrong).

# 44 huskerwr38 @ 07/10/10 06:36 PM

I don't know how Ian can make that statement about how real time physics can't be implemented because there is the possibility of 22 players colliding, and the amount of caclulations, etc., when we have a football game right now in it's first year, smaller development team, has done it!

I mean I am sick of the Madden dev team giving excuses on why something can't be done, or hasn't been done because it's too hard. They keep blaming the 06 and 07 debacle when that was almost 5 years ago! In the gaming industry that is a very very long time.

However, I am still amazed at what we used to have 6-7 years ago compared to what we have right now. It's sickening.

# 45 Step2001 @ 07/10/10 11:38 PM

People don't play past year 2 of Franchise mode? Yeah, on this gen version of Madden. The Franchise was gutted and very little was added over the years. Now why would someone keep playing?

The I.R. has been messed up for years.
No 80 man rosters
No Training Camp Battles
No Roster Cutdown days
No Practice Squad
No setting your 45 (46) gameday roster
Injuries are all messed up! What happned to the "Wear and Tear" Injury system?
No real interaction with other teams when it comes to free agency and trades
No Player attitudes
Contract negotiations are all messed up for the HUM controlled team
Free Agency with the lack of restricted free agency is missing
What's the point of scouting during the season, when you just have to look at the octogon graph of the players abilities?
No presentation for anything during the offseason. Leaving the NFL Draft untouched is a joke. It's a HUGE event!
In 2010 we see the Owners mode type stuff, but it's not hands on. Just giving us a breakdown.
Progression is all jacked up

I can keep going.........

# 46 Bash @ 07/11/10 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Step2001


	People don't play past year 2 of Franchise mode? Yeah, on this gen version of Madden. The Franchise was gutted and very little was added over the years. Now why would someone keep playing? The I.R. has been messed up for years. No 80 man rosters No Training Camp Battles No Roster Cutdown days No Practice Squad No setting your 45 (46) gameday roster Injuries are all messed up! What happned to the "Wear and Tear" Injury system? No real interaction with other teams when it comes to free agency and trades No Player attitudes Contract negotiations are all messed up for the HUM controlled team Free Agency with the lack of restricted free agency is missing What's the point of scouting during the season, when you just have to look at the octogon graph of the players abilities? No presentation for anything during the offseason. Leaving the NFL Draft untouched is a joke. It's a HUGE event! In 2010 we see the Owners mode type stuff, but it's not hands on. Just giving us a breakdown. Progression is all jacked up I can keep going.........

You hit the nail on the head. If there was a rep system I'd rep you.

# 47 warrior7807 @ 07/11/10 02:06 AM

"I am really excited with what we can accomplish once we get a solid foundation and better architecture in place."

Hopefully this will be for M12. I also find it baffling how they couldn't improve some things in franchise but they could improve OTP. As someone else said, i'm sure less than 10% of people played less than 32 games of online team play.

Hopefully, since the franchise team has been working on 12 for some time now, I hope to see major improvements. MAJOR. If they expect to make the same minor improvements they have been and try to pass them off as something great just because we have become complacent and used to the M10 and 11 franchise, i think they have another thing coming. COMMUNITY OUTLASH!!!!

# 48 Vikes1 @ 07/11/10 02:52 AM

Pretty disappointing to read Ian basically say, don't expect to see a real time physic engine in Madden with this gen of hardware.

Would seem to me that with these other sports games spending the next few years refining their physic engines...Madden may seem really dated for the remainder of this generation of sports games. It wouldn't surprise me if Tiburon is pressured to add a physic engine sooner than they may have plan to.

# 49 WFColonel56 @ 07/11/10 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Step2001


	People don't play past year 2 of Franchise mode? Yeah, on this gen version of Madden. The Franchise was gutted and very little was added over the years. Now why would someone keep playing? The I.R. has been messed up for years. No 80 man rosters No Training Camp Battles No Roster Cutdown days No Practice Squad No setting your 45 (46) gameday roster Injuries are all messed up! What happned to the "Wear and Tear" Injury system? No real interaction with other teams when it comes to free agency and trades No Player attitudes Contract negotiations are all messed up for the HUM controlled team Free Agency with the lack of restricted free agency is missing What's the point of scouting during the season, when you just have to look at the octogon graph of the players abilities? No presentation for anything during the offseason. Leaving the NFL Draft untouched is a joke. It's a HUGE event! In 2010 we see the Owners mode type stuff, but it's not hands on. Just giving us a breakdown. Progression is all jacked up I can keep going.........

I agree with everything but 80 man rosters and practice squad...97% of ppl dnt knw about or even care about the practice squad. And how much of a bother would it be to rate the players. And what would you go off of to rate them..and how many people would actually use the practice squad. and how would they progress

but everything else in am behind u 300%...they need to add the owner mode stuff back like in 04, that was my most fun franchise mode ever

# 50 WFColonel56 @ 07/11/10 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vikes1


	Pretty disappointing to read Ian basically say, don't expect to see a real time physic engine in Madden with this gen of hardware. Would seem to me that with these other sports games spending the next few years refining their physic engines...Madden may seem really dated for the remainder of this generation of sports games. It wouldn't surprise me if Tiburon is pressured to add a physic engine sooner than they may have plan to.

IMO it is alot easier to add something like rtp in a basketball game (IDK about NHL)....but to get it right would be hard to do. IMO BB didnt get it right and they spent 3 years on it. Their players dont respect weight, and many tackles are just rag doll and real ppl's bodies wouldnt act how they do in BB.

and then theres the issue of fighting for extra yards after contact...

maybe it cant be done correctly on this gen who knows

# 51 Step2001 @ 07/11/10 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WFColonel56


	I agree with everything but 80 man rosters and practice squad...97% of ppl dnt knw about or even care about the practice squad. And how much of a bother would it be to rate the players. And what would you go off of to rate them..and how many people would actually use the practice squad. and how would they progress but everything else in am behind u 300%...they need to add the owner mode stuff back like in 04, that was my most fun franchise mode ever

Josh Looman, when working on Head Coach 09 said that Practice Squad was on the table. Most likely would have been in Head Coach 10 if EA had continued to support the game.

Just like MLB 10 The Show and the Waiver Wire and Rule 5 Draft etc. etc. I'm sure alot of people did not understand those features who were not up on there baseball.
But when you make a game and have a mode called franchise I think you know what you are stepping into.

It's not hard, it's managing your roster and the practice squad is a key part of every team.

# 52 Step2001 @ 07/11/10 05:45 AM

Look at how deep EA's NHL game is with all the minor league hockey additions. That's how a Franchise mode should be, DEEP!

# 53 oneamongthefence @ 07/11/10 07:11 AM

"I am really excited with what we can accomplish once we get a solid foundation and better architecture in place."

It sounds like Ian is saying Madden 12 will be the foundation to set up a better franchise mode beyond next year. Maybe that's just my interpretation but hopefully next year will be the real dead. Last year was supposed to be the foundation. Also sorry for the cut and paste quotes. Can't do quotebacks on my blackberry.

# 54 Cryolemon @ 07/11/10 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nza


	What BB did right and what Madden does right, mashed together, can only be an improvement.

Of course, but that's easier said than done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by madchuck4


	Backbreaker doesnt have it working. The players fall like crash test dummies and get tackled by their own players. Trust me it doesnt work.

It works ok for a first attempt though. The problems you mention aren't huge compared to some of the stuff that's happened in Madden over the years.

# 55 Nza @ 07/11/10 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Step2001


	People don't play past year 2 of Franchise mode? Yeah, on this gen version of Madden. The Franchise was gutted and very little was added over the years. Now why would someone keep playing?

Yes, it's a typical EA response. It's never the quality at fault, always the market. They used the same logic against releasing a PC version - it was the lacking interest. Never mind Madden 08 PC was possibly the most outdated major release from a technical standpoint across any genre in 2007 on PC.

It's clear EA are in ultra conservative mode with Madden - they won't even consider investing in something which isn't guaranteed to work, which the online, tournament player focus provides.

# 56 Cobra84 @ 07/11/10 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albert_24


	"I am really excited with what we can accomplish once we get a solid foundation and better architecture in place." It sounds like Ian is saying Madden 12 will be the foundation to set up a better franchise mode beyond next year. Maybe that's just my interpretation but hopefully next year will be the real dead. Last year was supposed to be the foundation. Also sorry for the cut and paste quotes. Can't do quotebacks on my blackberry.

Time is running out for this generation and the 5+ years basically wasted on 06-09 development would be nice to have back. By the time this game gets a "foundation", the next generation of consoles could be announced. Then what, dumping the current engine for a physics based one and a possible repeat of Madden 06 feature wise?

# 57 Cryolemon @ 07/11/10 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adfletch71


	I think EA needs to bring it next year for 2012. Since they have 2 installment before the license ends in 2013. It would be suicide for them to not upgrade everything, because if there sales continue too fall, it might not be a good idea to renew the license. The suits know this and trust and believe other companies cant wait too get a chance on that bid.

I think it's naive at best to believe that they wont renew the license.

# 58 K_GUN @ 07/11/10 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryolemon


	I think it's naive at best to believe that they wont renew the license.

not the "exclusivity" part

# 59 kc10785 @ 07/11/10 01:53 PM

before trying to add new things maybe try to get the basics right. How can PS2 maddens have so much more franchise and gameplay features then the madden's we have now. How much people say BB physics wasn't done right it was a lot of improvement to canned animations. I understand they put a lot of jaw dropping tackles but if you play the game then pull back the replays you will see so much realistic movement done on the field you wouldn't believe your eyes. BB is far from perfect but EA needs to stop it with this approach.

I don't think EA can make there game have real time physics unless they scrap the engine they have now and I feel that Ian and his team thinks it's to late to start fresh. To much would be in stake. I prey to god that EA don't renew the NFL deal because if other companies put out better products they will be force to be creative.

To sum it up another year of Madden another year promises and another year of not following through with them.

Hope EA can get it together

# 60 shadthedad @ 07/11/10 04:07 PM

What Ian was saying in regards to real time physics is the gameplay would be to lose and random and it wouldn't reflect the NFL experience. I personally can respect that.

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