NBA 2K11 News Post

NBA 2K11 Developer Insights: Making a Smarter Game

07:31 PM - August 6, 2010 by Positive Chance

2K Sports has just posted another NBA 2K11 Developer Insight. This one focusing on making a smarter game, written by Mike Wang and Jerson Sapida.

Quote:


	"Now let�s talk about AI. Authenticity and Signature Style have always been strong points of 2K basketball. For NBA 2K11, we really wanted to take that to new heights both on the player level, as well as the team level. When I came back to the team last year and saw how much work the guys had done with the player tendencies, in partnership with 82games, I was really impressed. The thing I was most impressed by is how well all of the new tendencies had been integrated into the code. You can really see how each player rating and tendency is translated into how a real basketball player �thinks� out there on the floor. When I first played NBA 2K10, the difference between the superstars and the not-so-superstars immediately came through. But as I took the game to the lab, and really dissected each player and team, it really gave me an appreciation for just how much work had been done in that regard. Kobe loved his dribble pull up, Melo attacked like Melo on the perimeter as well as in the post, and J.R. Smith launched any shot from anywhere and everywhere without hesitation."

Game: NBA 2K11Reader Score: 9/10 - Vote Now
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Member Comments

# 81 scottyp180 @ 08/07/10 01:49 PM

This sounds great, this game gets better and better each week. Can't wait to see the game in motion. If the game plays/controls as expected then this game might not leave my xbox. The only thing that I don't like so far is the player models. NBA Elite has a better more authentic look to their players, imo.

# 82 SimBaller @ 08/07/10 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoobie


	i hate to be that guy but are all the stadiums more accurate looking? Like MSG having 3 dornas instead of a long one?

Looking at it right now, MSG has 3 dornas.

# 83 convince @ 08/07/10 02:58 PM

Wow the crowd look really good. But hope that is not a playoff game. Please show a pic where we can clearly see a difference in a reg. season crowd/court vs. Playoff crowd/court.

Btw SimBaller, will there will be a future insight containing details about a halftime/weekly show in Association? (ala CH2K8/NFL 2K5)

# 84 coolcras7 @ 08/07/10 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimBaller


	Looking at it right now, MSG has 3 dornas.

quick question if you have a minute SimBaller is the crowds more responsive to what is happening on the court this year, and is there more team spirit during the playoff.

# 85 Goffs @ 08/07/10 03:34 PM

Lol looks like I opened up a can of worms...thnx for the response sim and uh apologies when you get a ton of questions...

# 86 countryboy @ 08/07/10 03:44 PM

Simply put...WOW!!

So many great things in this blog, but the two biggest for me were the fact they have separate game settings for casual, the casual hardcore(default), and the hardcore(simulation) fan. I hope other games are taking note of this.

The other is the end of game AI. It seems that seems to be the one thing that has plagued basketball games for the longest time, is how the cpu handles the end of close games.

My birthday is October 5th...man what a great present. Thanks 2k.

# 87 Spartan901 @ 08/07/10 03:52 PM

Hey SimBaller...love what I'm hearing and reading on this year's game. Haven't been this siked for a bball game since...well, ever I think. Hope you guys let people wear with the half calf sleeve with socks so people will quit complaining about it everytime you guys post a pic (apparently this is a big deal) and maybe include the elbow pad thats attached to most arm sleeves now and the addidas sleeve dwight howard wears (hate to be the "dress up guy"). But frankly thats all i mention at the moment cuz it sounds like you guys have everything else clicking. Great job. Oh, two more words...PLAYOFF ATMOSPHERE

# 88 scottyp180 @ 08/07/10 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFuture4sho


	I can't cosign this... Wat u mean forget about online.. I love this insight but if all of this don't apply for online meaning the game style don't apply for rank games then this is useless plain n simple.. For offline I can change my sliders however i want it.. Myself n alot others want these options for online.. Offline is cool if dats wat u like most.. But this needs to b online... If not den it's a waste for me.. Ghost

This insight doesn't mention online play, but this will obviously effect online because this should help and improve some nagging gameplay issues. Plus even though your playing against a human player, this still effects the other 8 (4 players on each team) AI controlled players on the team; unless you are talking about team play.

One thing I hated about last years game on defense was that I never felt like my team was going to be in good position to make the play, I felt that I would have to swith players and try to move them into position myself. That simply was too hard to do because defenders couldn't move to the right spot fast enough. They also mentioned that man to man defensive is improved, including shading to the baseline and cutting off players. If this works as good as it sounds then defending should be a lot better, and make for a more realistic game.

The offensive adjustments sound like they will help out spacing and also off ball movement, which is something that really bothered me last year. Nothings more annoying on offense to see players standing around, and players not reacting to whats going on on the court. I hated when I would have no one to pass the ball to because they just stayed in one spot. If you drive to the basketball players should move and look to be open for a pass, whether they are on the perimeter or in the paint. It sounds as though they have worked on this and i cant wait to see how much is has improved.

Again these don't directly effect online but they change the actual gameplay, which will make for a better game, both online and offline. Every week I see people who seem unsatisfied with the developer insights because they don't say anything about online. Just be patient and wait until they have the insight for online, they will eventually talk about everything they have done online, they are just focusing on the gameplay aspect first, because that is the most important part of the game. You need to make sure you have a good, solid game to play online before you can address the online aspect of the game. Its only early August just have patience.

# 89 ronyell @ 08/07/10 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoobie


	those gotta be 2k10 pics...if they added wingspans for the players then Gasol's arms should be longer...kinda short in this pic...

LOL... look at Dwight Howard's face on that pic!.... LMAO! he looks like "WHOWHOOWHOO, HOMIE, GASOL JUST JUMPED OVER YOU!"

great read on the additions... agreed that the tendency need to ACTUALLY work for this to truly be praise worthy. i most excited about the spacing & transition revamping. I ALWAYS ended games with like 4 fast break point unless i threw alleys all day

# 90 eko718 @ 08/07/10 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonesy


	the 'man crush' had me lol'ing. One thing i really hope they fix is the decision process for who doubles when you are trying to double down on a low post player. Say you are playing the Celtics and you want to double KG on the block because he is killing you. You hit the double team button and your team chooses to leave Ray Allen WIDE open to come for the double rather than to leave someone like Rondo or Perkins who couldn't hit a jumper to save their life. Seriously though it seems they have true hoop fans working on this game which means it is in good hands and I can't wait to get my hands on it. I'm still playing 2k10 to this day and enjoying it (the longest i have played a basketball game since inside drive) so i can only look forward with hope for what these guys have in store of 2k11.

Lol at your avatar....

# 91 DGMikeBarker @ 08/07/10 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by womalee23


	Wow, I am really pumped for this game, it looks like 2k really listened this year. I can't wait to see what lies ahead. Oct 5 can't get here fast enough for me. I has a feeling this is going to be a "Classic" from every aspect.

I'm with you sir

# 92 -DaVe- @ 08/07/10 05:41 PM

I'm hoping players actually move their feet on defense this time instead of sliding...
like players would slide from side to side in their stance..no shuffling of the feet

# 93 RayDog253 @ 08/07/10 08:22 PM

I really like what Mike is bringing to back 2k11. The authentic Plays and the "Game Style" are two things I really liked about Live. All the new tendencies sound great, especially the playmaker and touches tendencies.

I wonder if they'll add a atmosphere setting as well.

# 94 Jukeman @ 08/07/10 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshPrince22


	co-sign. "forget online"? get outta here. we already have the ability in 2K10 to use custom sliders offline, which gives us the option to cater to our playstyles in any way we want; so i'm not about to spazz out just because we've been thrown a couple of premade sets of sliders this year. aside from eliminating a trip to the 2K Share part of the menu, this means almost nothing to me if it's not online. i don't know if mods are instructed to start groveling at the sight of any ol bone they're thrown or what, but online is a big deal to me. being able to use to the Sim playstyle online would be huge

As a slider guy, I hated NBA2k10 on the court (the bugs didnt help its case last year neither)

Like audio engineers, you cant make a bad mix into something that sounds great, but you can take a good mix and make it amazing...Smarter AI will help make a "amazing" NBA game despite having "preset sliders for realism"

.02

# 95 DGMikeBarker @ 08/07/10 10:39 PM

As a defensive-minded player I'm ecstatic about better shuffling with on-ball defense, and better attention to stop driving lanes. It makes the game more exciting when you have to work for a shot.

# 96 NINJAK2 @ 08/08/10 12:57 AM

Great read. This was a pleasant surprise. Love the details on improved playcalling(with branching plays

), improved player movement on offense and defense, etc. Looks like they did some work on Melo and PP which was needed...I love that tidbit about being able to make players pick up their dribble on the baseline too(hopefully we will be able to do that on all areas of the court). Can't wait to hear more.

# 97 Saviour @ 08/08/10 05:11 AM

I love these developer insight, but they do sound like a lot of hype. I need to see if they actually fixed alot of the problems from last year. The action was so scripted it became frustrating at times. Last year they wrote a article claiming they implemented "shutdown defense". We all know how much of a joke that was. T2K10 was one the worst defensive games I ever played. Players were always out of position, and when they were in position it was only a 50% chance you could initiate the correct animation to do anything about the play. Passes to a cutting center would lead to a dunk all the time and the defense could not stop it. It was very rare that a defender tipped a ball even though he would be looking right at the play. Dunk animations were nice, but once they started they always finished even on misses unless you were lucky enough to trigger the block animation. Changes sound nice but I am skeptical that the execution will be done properly since they promised so much last year and they failed to implement properly. Please prove me wrong. This basketball engine has all the tools but man its missing rock solid implementation.

# 98 eddykb @ 08/08/10 06:11 AM

[quote=Jano;2041432080]The new defensive and fastbreak logic sound great can't wait to see them in action this year.

I'm real excited about 2K this year they are really looking to address a lot of issues can't wait to try out the demo.[/quote

sounds good

# 99 pdx_24 @ 08/08/10 11:48 AM

Loves the message of �making a smarter game,� but very disappointed after reading of how they�re planning to make the game �smarter�. I must be among the few (the only one?) that did not like this insights because it looks like many of you in this thread are very excited. I�ll quickly address some of the changes talked about that I�m looking forward to and some that I�m lukewarm about. But my main focus � and gripes � will once again be on defense (or lack thereof).

I�m always for giving users more options, so I like the newly inclusion of �Game Style�. Personally, I don�t think I�ll even touch �Game Style� since I love adjusting the sliders to closely fit the way I want to play the game. Nonetheless, I see this feature as being useful for those who don�t like to spend a lot of time messing with sliders. I�m also excited about the added Tendencies, especially the Touches tendency. Stars and superstars just don�t touch the ball enough in all previous NBA 2K games. Their Usage Rates need to increase dramatically to get the sense of them dominating the game. The rest I�m either lukewarm about or don�t understand how the changes will affect gameplay yet.
Now onto my gripes. Take a look at this insights:

Quote:


	In last year�s game, it was very easy to get in the paint and get that high percentage shot close to the basket. This was an exploit because of the following: defensive logic with passes to the paint was lacking, poor block selection, and the absence of contact shots. *Let�s start with the pass defense. Part of the problem last year was that it was too easy to thread the needle with passes to teammates in the paint.* Defenders were either not reacting at all or too late to attempt to swat the ball away, leading to an easy penetration and bucket. *Passes like these should be very risky since the receiver is usually in heavy traffic. Defenders are now smarter in tipping or stealing this type of pass.* When defending shots from underneath or close to the basket, there was a lack of physicality or shot contention in last year�s game. It even felt like defenders were not affecting the shots at all. Shooters will jump for an under basket layup, ghosting through defenders. To address this issue, you will now see more physical contact shots. In 2K10, if there�s a defender nearby, you will most certainly get bodied up and draw contact underneath the basket. This in turn, has a lower shot % than a regular uncontested shot. Overall, shot percentages underneath the basket have been tuned when defenders are around to contest.

This insights was written last year for 2K10! I call B.S. on any of this ever came to fruition in 2K10. In fact, I would say 2K10 was easier to score in the paint than previous NBA 2K games. I'd be very excited if the same was said for 2K11, but only this time mean it. By far the biggest problem for the NBA 2K franchise has been DEFENSE, DEFENSE, and some more DEFENSE. And in the paint defense is the biggest culprit for the defensive woes. It is ridiculously easy to thread the needle in the paint every time to a big man and have him score the basket 80%+ of the time. I can use a center with the lowest passing rating and still rack up assists by passing the ball on a dime to a player streaking to the basket or just passing it to the unguarded big man in the paint. It is ridiculous when I can easily score 90% of all my points in the paint. In the NBA, you�d have to play a very lousy defensive team to even score close to 40% of your points in the paint. The unbelievably accurate lead pass (by every player, not just the players with high passing ratings) and the stupidity of the AI defenders to not put a hand on their man in the paint is squarely to blame for this. Offball contact in the paint is much needed. Don't let offensive players roam in the paint willy nilly.

And please, not every big man is a Chris Paul when it comes to passing. Hell, not any player is Chris Paul when it comes to passing (not even Kidd). While I�m complaining about big men with point guard skills, how about totally making them useless with all the fancy ball handling? When was the last time Yao Ming dribble in traffic getting past defenders for a basket? In NBA 2K, at will. Let�s face it, the bigs have their advantage in height, not skills!

Defense (in the paint) and lead passing are the glaring problems and this year�s insights on defense is this:

Quote:


	Let�s start first and foremost with onball defense AI � preventing the ball handler from penetrating and getting to the hoop. When we first began development on NBA 2K11, revamping the defensive movement model was one of our top priorities - from both user-control and AI standpoint. This is essential especially for onball defenders. We could write the most intelligent defensive AI, but without the responsive and tight movement system to complement it, the whole system would feel broken. As often is the case with basketball games, the dribbler feels like they have so many tools at their disposal to break down the defender.

Preventing the ball handler from penetrating is not and has never been a problem. If it is a problem, it is that the defender are too well able to prevent the ball handler from penetrating. Shaq or Yao being able to stay with Chris Paul on the perimeter is an example. However, preventing the ball handler from getting to the hoop continues to be a major problem. There�s a fine and very important distinction there. As noted by 2K game developer himself, even the best perimeter defender cannot stop his man from going past him. What separates a great perimeter defender from an average one is he can slow down his man enough to allow help defense to come over in time to prevent the ball handler from getting to the basket. Perimeter defense is fine the way it is now. It is the help defense that is the problem. Make it so that the ball handlers are worry of drawing a charge when they take it to the basket. Make it so that the ball handlers are worry of the help defense coming over sending the ball to the fifth row. As it is right now, there is hardly charges drawn in the paint or any shot blocking from help defense.

Fix the help defense, especially in the paint defense. Completely re-work the lead pass and ball handling so that playmakers are appreciated for their skills and likewise finishers for theirs. Everything else is just spraying cologne on turd.

Sorry it is so long. I still have got a lot more gripes and suggestions, but done for now.

# 100 bearschicago @ 08/08/10 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdx_24


	Loves the message of �making a smarter game,� but very disappointed after reading of how they�re planning to make the game �smarter�. I must be among the few (the only one?) that did not like this insights because it looks like many of you in this thread are very excited. I�ll quickly address some of the changes talked about that I�m looking forward to and some that I�m lukewarm about. But my main focus � and gripes � will once again be on defense (or lack thereof). I�m always for giving users more options, so I like the newly inclusion of �Game Style�. Personally, I don�t think I�ll even touch �Game Style� since I love adjusting the sliders to closely fit the way I want to play the game. Nonetheless, I see this feature as being useful for those who don�t like to spend a lot of time messing with sliders. I�m also excited about the added Tendencies, especially the Touches tendency. Stars and superstars just don�t touch the ball enough in all previous NBA 2K games. Their Usage Rates need to increase dramatically to get the sense of them dominating the game. The rest I�m either lukewarm about or don�t understand how the changes will affect gameplay yet. Now onto my gripes. Take a look at this insights: This insights was written last year for 2K10! I call B.S. on any of this ever came to fruition in 2K10. In fact, I would say 2K10 was easier to score in the paint than previous NBA 2K games. I'd be very excited if the same was said for 2K11, but only this time mean it. By far the biggest problem for the NBA 2K franchise has been DEFENSE, DEFENSE, and some more DEFENSE. And in the paint defense is the biggest culprit for the defensive woes. It is ridiculously easy to thread the needle in the paint every time to a big man and have him score the basket 80%+ of the time. I can use a center with the lowest passing rating and still rack up assists by passing the ball on a dime to a player streaking to the basket or just passing it to the unguarded big man in the paint. It is ridiculous when I can easily score 90% of all my points in the paint. In the NBA, you�d have to play a very lousy defensive team to even score close to 40% of your points in the paint. The unbelievably accurate lead pass (by every player, not just the players with high passing ratings) and the stupidity of the AI defenders to not put a hand on their man in the paint is squarely to blame for this. Offball contact in the paint is much needed. Don't let offensive players roam in the paint willy nilly. And please, not every big man is a Chris Paul when it comes to passing. Hell, not any player is Chris Paul when it comes to passing (not even Kidd). While I�m complaining about big men with point guard skills, how about totally making them useless with all the fancy ball handling? When was the last time Yao Ming dribble in traffic getting past defenders for a basket? In NBA 2K, at will. Let�s face it, the bigs have their advantage in height, not skills! Defense (in the paint) and lead passing are the glaring problems and this year�s insights on defense is this: *Preventing the ball handler from penetrating* is not and has never been a problem. If it is a problem, it is that the defender are too well able to prevent the ball handler from penetrating. Shaq or Yao being able to stay with Chris Paul on the perimeter is an example. However, preventing the ball handler from getting to the hoop continues to be a major problem.** There�s a fine and very important distinction there. As noted by 2K game developer himself, even the best perimeter defender cannot stop his man from going past him. What separates a great perimeter defender from an average one is he can slow down his man enough to allow help defense to come over in time to prevent the ball handler from getting to the basket. Perimeter defense is fine the way it is now. It is the help defense that is the problem. Make it so that the ball handlers are worry of drawing a charge when they take it to the basket. Make it so that the ball handlers are worry of the help defense coming over sending the ball to the fifth row. As it is right now, there is hardly charges drawn in the paint or any shot blocking from help defense. Fix the help defense, especially in the paint defense. Completely re-work the lead pass and ball handling so that playmakers are appreciated for their skills and likewise finishers for theirs. Everything else is just spraying cologne on turd. Sorry it is so long. I still have got a lot more gripes and suggestions, but done for now.

I agree with everything you said. Another insight in 2K10 that was not true(perhaps it was a programming issue).

Quote:


	Living Rosters will update the playbook based on your team/coach, so your main squad will be up-to-date. Trades will happen that completely changes the team dynamics and with that, playbooks will need updating as well. I am sure that will be discussed in a future Living Rosters Insight.

http://community.2ksports.com/commun...id=987609&l=11

With regards to lead passing, pick-and-roll defense/lack of off-ball contact: How to fix the Lead Pass/Make it Realistic

My ultimate Sim wishlist: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...shlist-54.html Post #539 and 540 Tell me what you think.

2K10 would've been an amazing game if offball defense was more physical/realistic(putting a hand on their man), AI CPU were able to do canimation blocks like human users(Draft Combine had this) and lots of little glitches were fixed(AI CPU backcourt violations/AI CPU getting stuck in baseline areas/baseline layups not initiating any contact/etc).

But I have extremely high hopes for 2K11. The reason is this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearschicago


	I'm wondering if 2K11 will finally include a simple animation of offball defenders 'putting a hand on the man he is guarding' especially within 15 feet? This occurs all the time in the NBA. This will prevent cheap backdoor cuts/lead pass as well as providing some resistance when players try and cut to the rim. First basketball video game to implement this animation will go a long way in the Sim department. Also the lead pass needs to be toned down. Currently it is too fast and accurate. Needs to be fixed in two ways. 1. Lead pass is slow but accurate. 2. Lead pass is fast but not as accurate(have to gather to catch the ball). For more info on this: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...realistic.html Also the ultimate Sim wishlist. I posted this also on 2K Sports forums and also PM'd it to SimBaller here on OperationSports. He hasn't replied to me yet. http://www.operationsports.com/forum...shlist-54.html Post #539 and 540.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearschicago


	Beluba, could you please provide an answer or is it too early to discuss gameplay? Perhaps could you mention at least that you guys are tweaking on lead pass/passing in general and adding a simple animation of 'offball defenders putting a hand' on their man? Would be much appreciated especially within this Sim community.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beluba


	Sorry. It's too early to disclose info. Once we get closer to ship I'll be happy to share more details on what you can expect for 2K11. We have read your wishlist though and are incorporating your feedback the best we can.

Since I don't want Da-Czar calling me out again(he wrote that I post the same things too often

) I will end it with this:

With Michael Jordan on the cover, Mike Wang back(Beluba) and the 2K staff reading my ultimate Sim wishlist, I honestly believe 2K11 will be an all-time great.

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