Madden NFL 16 News Post

Madden NFL 16: Penalties Are Finally Going to Be a Thing

05:28 PM - June 15, 2015 by Steve_OS

Penalties have long not been a big part of the Madden NFL experience. This year, EA is hoping to change that legacy, which you can read fully fleshed out on their new blog:

Quote:


	"Our hardcore simulation fans have been demanding realistic penalties for years. The team finally made this a point of emphasis in Madden NFL 16, and penalties will play a bigger factor than ever before. In addition to several new penalties being added, we have updated all pre-existing penalties and built a system to control penalty frequency."

What This Means: Every player is going to get a penalty trait based on real-world NFL data, which will determine how likely they are to commit a penalty. Also, how you play the game will determine how many penalties are called as well. A pressing cornerback is used as an example, where your chances of seeing a defensive holding penalty are higher than if he is playing loose.

The penalty sliders also are getting a makeover, with the default setting based on NFL penalty averages over the last five seasons, which will make penalty type and frequency as authentic as possible, so EA says.

Penalties which got the updated treatment include: Encroachment, False Start, Offensive Holding, Facemask, Defensive Pass Interference, Illegal Block in the Back, Neutral Zone Infraction, Defensive Holding, Illegal Forward Pass, Illegal Touching, Delay of Game, Kick Catch Interference Running into the Kicker, Unnecessary Roughness and Roughing the Passer.

What do you think of the potentially improved penalties?

Game: Madden NFL 16Reader Score: 7/10 - Vote Now
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Member Comments

# 201 JOS1181 @ 07/22/15 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidSquid


	Basically 2 things. Option routes where wr's read the defense and run the corresponding route. For example if he reads cover 2 he runs a post but if it's cover 3 he runs an out.(these are in the game now but are kinda unreliable). Secondly would be making slight route alterations based on what the defense does. So say a guy is supposed to run a 10 yard curl, but at the snap the cb starts back pedaling(cover 3) you can now break the route off sooner to have a better chance to get the ball in space.

I think that would go a long way to getting completion percentages closer to the real world even for the CPU. Add in a timing aspect and it would be even better.

To bad about offsetting penalties not being in.. I really wish they would have went all the way on penalties. I also wonder if late hits are now part of the game? Late hit OB / Roughing the Passer etc.

# 202 PGaither84 @ 07/22/15 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S


	What is true progressive route running?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidSquid


	Basically 2 things. Option routes where wr's read the defense and run the corresponding route. For example if he reads cover 2 he runs a post but if it's cover 3 he runs an out.(these are in the game now but are kinda unreliable). Secondly would be making slight route alterations based on what the defense does. So say a guy is supposed to run a 10 yard curl, but at the snap the cb starts back pedaling(cover 3) you can now break the route off sooner to have a better chance to get the ball in space.

Yes. In a nut shell, that.

I have been writing blogs outside of Operation Sports about the Bill Walsh West Coast Offense, and one of them was all about WR Routes.

WCO Route Tree & Auxiliary Tree

Spoiler

The following links are the detailed coaching points on how to run specific routes against a variety of coverages and looks:
Go - Different from the Stick route
Come Back
Hook - Different from the Curl route.
Deep Post
Corner
Circle Out
In - Different from the Center route.
Slant
Quick Out
Out

I don't expect that level of depth any time soon, if ever, but I do want to focus on a few of those charts in particular:

Notice how the Deep Post changes to a Go route against "Nose" & "Bump Trail" coverage. Against "Bracket" coverage the post is cut off and turned into something that resembles a deep "slant and go" of sorts.

Notice how the Cricle Out (often called the C routes in Madden) can adjust to a Deep Out, or a form of Deep Come Back based on the coverage.

Notice how the Quick Out can turn into a fade against Cleo (Cloud) and and tight bump (man or zone) coverages.

There are some of these kinds of "option routes" in Madden, and they have been a part of the game since Madden 2005. As was said earlier, they are unreliable, though I think some of that can be "blamed" on the route running rating. EA claims that the route running rating (formerly awareness) had an impact on the decision making of the receiver in question. This goes back to the offensive and defensive play calls being tied together internally. The Offensive line knows who is supposed to blitz and from where. The DBs know the routes the receivers are running, which is why they can jump routes before the WR even starts his break at times, and how the AI know which option route is the "right choice" against a specific coverage. Supposedly, the Route Running Rating was supposed to be the "X-factor dice roll/random chance" of making the wrong choice. that is all well and good to me. I just wish it would have been expanded upon in the last 11 years.

The only routes I am aware of that take advantage of this are some Curl-to-Quick In/Quick Out options by the TE, a Post-to-Out option on "Falcon Post," and the Deep Comeback on "Colts Divide/Levels." There might be a few more, but not many. Certainly not on nearly every passing play in the game like it "should be" for pretty much every receiver.

I understand how that might be too overwhelming for new/casual players... but we are talking about NFL receivers who usually make the right choices far more often than not, and on Rookie/Pro difficulty, EA can set the ratio of "correct/incorrect" decision making to like 95% or what ever.

If you call "Raven Quick Outs" from ACE, then both X & Y are running quick outs while your two TEs are running curls. If the defense is a cover 2 man/zone press, you could audible out of it, or the game can have the receivers adjust to the route correctly and try to beat their man. Even a new/casual player is going to want to force a throw into that coverage and end up with a pick 6.

You see... that is the big deal to me. These "option routes" actually help new/casual players by getting their receivers open more consistently. Instead of the receiver just running into coverage, they should read the coverage, adjust and work to get open. So much of what I advocate in terms of representing a recreating football would actually HELP the casual/new player in my opinion.

*Nano blitzes would, in theory stop existing because linemen would be block their area instead of getting confused and letting players run right passed them.

*Normal overload blitzes would work instead of having a backside guard or tackle swing all the way around to block an OLB.

*Proper Pass protection schemes would account for those over load blitzes and the backs would pick them up instead of going on the designated routes - Imagine if almost all HB/FB routes were blue now with the exception of a few plays like screens and Texas, or the few plays that have the TE/FB block, so the TE would have a blue route instead of the HB.

*What if the agility/acceleration/man coverage/route running ratings would have more of an impact on the game, rather than the DBs just mirroring routes.

*What if the Alex Gibbs zone blocking rules applied?

*What if they brought back the classic PS2 era Madden trainer "football 101" feature where John Madden, or someone actually taught you core football plays? When I was a teenager I used to log hours upon hours in that thing. I think it was Madden 2002, 2003 and maybe 2004.

Yes, there was a time when EA actively tried to teach you how to be better at football and their video game... and for the most part it worked. They would hold your hand and take you through the baby steps. This is different than the "mini camp" drills and games. There was a mode when Madden would tell you the play, the objective of the play, then an animation showed what it was supposed to look like, and finally asked you to repeat it.

I know this isn't directly related to the topic on hand, but in terms of improving the game... this is 2015 (Madden 16) and this is stuff I was posting about before Madden 10 came out. Most of it is in the game in one way or another but needs improvement, or was in the game and removed for an unknown reason.

# 203 Hooe @ 07/22/15 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGaither84


	What if they brought back the classic PS2 era Madden trainer "football 101" feature where John Madden, or someone actually taught you core football plays? When I was a teenager I used to log hours upon hours in that thing. I think it was Madden 2002, 2003 and maybe 2004. Yes, there was a time when EA actively tried to teach you how to be better at football and their video game... and for the most part it worked. They would hold your hand and take you through the baby steps. This is different than the "mini camp" drills and games. There was a mode when Madden would tell you the play, the objective of the play, then an animation showed what it was supposed to look like, and finally asked you to repeat it.

They did this already. Skills Trainer introduced the instruction of real-life football passing and coverage concepts in Madden NFL 15, and it's handled completely differently and much more thoroughly than the PS2 games ever did it.

# 204 PGaither84 @ 07/22/15 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM Hooe


	They did this already. Skills Trainer introduced the instruction of real-life football passing and coverage concepts in Madden NFL 15, and it's handled completely differently and much more thoroughly than the PS2 games ever did it.

oh, wow. that is great. Is that on the 360 version of the game? I don't have an Xbox 1 or PS4. I hope it will be in Madden 16. I'd like to get a new copy when it comes out.

# 205 4thQtrStre5S @ 07/22/15 02:07 PM

Okay, I wasn't clear on the fact that i know what progressive route running is, I was asking what PGaither84 thought it meant in regards to MAdden...As I see it, MAdden allows your to hot route which would be identifying the coverage and adjust routes...

I am to assume PGaither84 means he wants the WR's to do the route change automatically? We can hot route to check/release in M15, so that is good, but primitive.

I would like more options in routes to change to...I prefer more control as opposed to just making everything automatic and I just watch..

The OL and DL interactions and assignments and adjustments need to be automatic, based on football fundamentals, because they are currently not working completely as they should, and the OL needs to be made automatic, more importantly, in it's assignments and adjustments because a user cannot control them...

Ratings need to matter more - and I hate the mirroring by defenders...

# 206 badman33462 @ 07/22/15 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOS1181


	I think that would go a long way to getting completion percentages closer to the real world even for the CPU. Add in a timing aspect and it would be even better. To bad about offsetting penalties not being in.. I really wish they would have went all the way on penalties. I also wonder if late hits are now part of the game? Late hit OB / Roughing the Passer etc.

Late hits out of bounds are in the game this year. I've gotten called for them a few times

# 207 Hooe @ 07/22/15 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGaither84


	oh, wow. that is great. Is that on the 360 version of the game? I don't have an Xbox 1 or PS4. I hope it will be in Madden 16. I'd like to get a new copy when it comes out.

I would guess "yes", but I no longer have an XBOX 360 so I can't answer that definitively.

Skills Trainer is returning to Madden NFL 16 and it's been expanded upon.

# 208 PGaither84 @ 07/22/15 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S


	Okay, I wasn't clear on the fact that i know what progressive route running is, I was asking what PGaither84 thought it meant in regards to MAdden...As I see it, MAdden allows your to hot route which would be identifying the coverage and adjust routes... I am to assume PGaither84 means he wants the WR's to do the route change automatically? We can hot route to block/release routes in M15, so that is good.. I would like more options in routes to change to...I prefer more control as opposed to just making everything automatic and I just watch.. The OL and DL interactions and assignments and adjustments need to be automatic, based on football fundamentals, because they are currently not working completely as they should, and the OL needs to be made automatic, more importantly, in it's assignments and adjustments because a user cannot control them... Ratings need to matter more - and I hate the mirroring by defenders...

Yeah. When I have a C route called, I want the AI to know when to break it off and come back for the ball to get open instead of just running blindly into coverage.

I end up using hot routes too, and often hot route to the deep come back. That and the deep out are the strongest routes in the game in my opinion. If you complete enough passes with that hot route the AI eventually starts jumping the route, which is nice... but in real life it isn't a hot route or audible call before the snap. It is part of the route design.

In Madden you can turn a slant into a deep comeback. That isn't realistic. That isn't how teams operate. There are playbook rules of how to adjust your route to the coverage and they make line calls based on the coverage they anticipate. When you play Madden, all of your players psychically know what you, the hive mind player wants to do. There are limitations in real life. Communication using code words and working against crowd noise among them.

I just prefer to play the game as authentically as I can because I enjoy that. It is part of the immersion of the game. I am not trying to stick skill the computer or out cheese my opponent. That isn't my goal. I have been there. I have done that. That isn't what I want to get out of the game anymore.

# 209 4thQtrStre5S @ 07/22/15 02:53 PM

I am rather educated in football, for someone who studies it because I love the game and nothing more, though rules on playbooks is new to me cause I have never coached...Is there a place I can educate myself on these rules, online or maybe a book I could find?

As you brought up, there are some "Option Routes" in MAdden, but I question if they actually work...

I previously said there is block/release in Madden, but it is actually check/release...

# 210 JoedicyMichael @ 07/22/15 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S


	..Is there a place I can educate myself on these rules, online or maybe a book I could find

Well there is always http://www.nfl.com/rulebook .. But its really general.

As for rules on playbooks, the only thing I could find are older playbooks here http://www.footballxos.com/free-foot...nfl-playbooks/

# 211 PGaither84 @ 07/22/15 03:35 PM

Footballxos is my primary source for playbooks. My understanding is that Bill Wlash kind of invented these "rules" as adjustments to coverages that spread across the NFL like a plague becasue of his success and coaching tree to the point that they are almost universal at this point.

In the 2004 Patriots offense you can see how pretty much every passing play has variations based on the coverage:

Notice how this is a "Quick Out" play, but the "fade adjust" vs a press roll. That is the same concept that Walsh wrote about in the playbook I quoted from earlier, written 20 years before the Patriots book.

The TE is told to run the Hook, which pretty much match the "Hook" rules Walsh wrote about in this art:

# 212 4thQtrStre5S @ 07/22/15 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoedicyMichael


	Well there is always http://www.nfl.com/rulebook .. But its really general. As for rules on playbooks, the only thing I could find are older playbooks here http://www.footballxos.com/free-foot...nfl-playbooks/

Cool...And I see they have a 1997 playbook from Mike Holmgren...That makes it even better...

# 213 PGaither84 @ 07/22/15 03:48 PM

I know I am a 49ers fan boy, but Walsh literally wrote the book... or really books on offensive football. Even teams who don't run he WCO still use a ton of his teaching for route running, route combinations, and progression reads.

The offense evolved over time and the old power running game with traps and power sweeps (a hold over from the Vince Lombardi days) have slowly been replaced by the Alex Gibbs zone blocking scheme.

Also, the next generation of innovation are plays which are really two or three plays in one. I don't have the link right now, but there was a great write up showing how the packers have this crazy "Stick-Draw-Sceen" three play read combination. Rodgers reads the Sam (in nickle) linebacker. I think they said the first read is the quick hook to the TE as part of he "stick" combination we know from Madden. Then if the LB respects that, he can pop the draw play to he HB, an he has a back door WR screen as a third option if the D is playing soft outside. It is pretty crazy and interesting.

Also, there was another great article how the 2012 Patriots started doing something similar with their hurry up offense and ran it all out of single code words. Each code word is apparently designated for one of those three-play read combination things they have. they are effectively running 'the same play" over and over again, but based on the look the defense gives, they can hit you a multitude of different ways. Especially when you factor in the route running rules I am talking about. That is some modern next level stuff that I am sure we will get to read about 5+ years from now in more detail.

# 214 4thQtrStre5S @ 07/22/15 04:00 PM

I think it would be really nice to have an area on this forum just for football strategy talk, theories, techniques, etc..As it is in reality and how we would like it implemented into Madden or football game in general.

# 215 PVarck31 @ 07/22/15 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S


	I think it would be really nice to have an area on this forum just for football strategy talk, theories, techniques, etc..As it is in reality and how we would like it implemented into Madden or football game in general.

This is a great idea because this thread couldn't be more off-topic right now. If you guys wanna talk about all the above, someone make a thread about it.

Lets get this thread back onto penalties.

# 216 LingeringRegime @ 07/22/15 04:34 PM

This confirmed a pre-order from me today. I hope I'm not let down.

# 217 Cowboy008 @ 07/25/15 06:53 AM

Since the penalties will finally work does that mean the sliders will work better this year as well?

# 218 SageInfinite @ 07/25/15 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IcedCoffee1983


	Same here. The past few years I have made a point to buy Madden used after release and a patch or two. Mostly because of frustration with legacy issues and glitches. (like no PI for years, or the backwards wind arrow on FG's they finally fixed, or the messed up finances in Owner Mode last year) But it seems finally things like that are supposed to be fixed... so for the first time in years I did a pre-order (I did the PS4 Amazon deal). BTW, has anyone here done an Amazon pre order for games? Do they actually show up on release day, like they say?

All of the games I've preordered have definitely been on my doorstep the day of release as long as you have release day shipping.

# 219 SageInfinite @ 07/25/15 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shady Mike


	Sorry, not to nitpick, but around what time? Trying to see if it will be worth to order from amazon or if I should just find somewhere around me to pick it up at midnight...(Going to be on a new college campus this year)

Whenever UPS decides to show up for that day, lol. Most of my games have arrived between 10 and 1. One time(I can't remember if it was a release day game) I had a game show up at almost 5.

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